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Devs have 0 interest in listening to the community

lawbreaker9000lawbreaker9000
LawBreakers Rep: 1,645
Posts: 259
Member
edited August 9 in General PC Discussion
I think i have to do one last topic before i can leave this game alone.This just has to be said.

So Cliff Bleszinski made advertising for his product by saying in all of his interviews that "one of the trademarks of this game is that they really listen to the community and develop the game together with the community".But sadly that is all talk no action.You dont belive me? Name me one bigger thing they have changed in lawbreakers after listening to the community feedback of the last two month ??


-Did they change anything about how any of the gamemodes work=?
Uplink is still the far superior version of overcharge but out of developer nostalgica they refuse to patch overcharge out of the game.

Wraith,Assassin and Vanguard can still score a goal in blitzball in 5 seconds, because maps are way to small for this gamemode and having to have every match a juggernaut camping in the back of the goal area with shields is also a very boring way to play this mode.

And this new gamemode, occupy , where you have to camp the entire round in a 5 meter big circle and arent allowed to exit the circle if you want to continue to score points..... which sick(sick doesnt means cool in this case) mind comes on ideas like this.



-Did they implement 2 hero pick limit so that you dont have to fight against 4 wraith, juggernauts or gunslingers all the time?
-Did they let you chose the gamemode you want to play?
-Did they let you turn off the annoying voice lines?
-Did they re-code the spawning system that way that you dont refill in matches which have only 1 minute of gametime left?
-Did they implement custom colored crosshairs ?
-Did they implement a team death match mode or something simular(And dont say Occupy is like TDM, Occupy is a mode where you have to stay the entire match in a 5 meter big circle)?



Pretty interesting in this reguard is the Interview of Dan Nanni, Lead Designer at Boss Key with the streamer Frothy Omen:




Omen comunicated that a huge amount of player wants to have a two hero pick limit, turn of the annoying and spamy voice lines, wants to chose the gamemode they want to play and wants to have custom crosshairs.

And the only thing Dan Nanni had to say to all of those legit points was:
two hero pick limit: "It would not be fun if you cant pick the hero you want to select in quickplay anymore"

ability to select the gamemode you want to play:"We can understand that, but we want that all of our gamemodes become playtime,even the sh_it ones which no one wants to play"

voice line spam: "even when those players find them annoying its good for those players to have the voice lines on, because they warn them for incomming danger they otherwise maybe would have missed" ---> Right , as if i have to hear 50 times in one round "armoring up" or "hashtag your dead bro" in order to have a good situational awerness of what is going on in the game and are total helpless if i dont hear those nonsensical lines anymore ";)"

They just totaly refuse to admit that they have no gamemode,except of turf war, wich is not entirely build around camping in small rooms or small areas for the entire round (Uplink,Overcharge,Occupy) or scoring points in 5 seconds with only one counterstrat, camping with juggs shield (Blitzball) And they just totaly refuse to change that, even when most of the community tells them that those modes dont work the way they designed them. And that it is not fun to play against 4 gunslingers, 4 wraith or 4 assassins at the same time.

Its always the same pattern of answering they do in all of their interviews. "We understand that the community wants subject x,y but we cant do that because" and then they always insert a fake advanced reason why x,y is not doable at the moment even when it would be something easy and fast to do like letting the players chose the gamemode they want to play or introducing a 2 hero pick limit.

The truth is if they would want to create a two hero pick limit they could code it in in less then 2 days, but they dont want to.Because they want the game to be exactly as it is now , with little to no change and you are delusional if you think they change .

And all this talk about "develop the game together with the community" is only PR talk to make you buy the game.Has it worked? Again tell me which bigger changes they did in the last two month on behave of player feedback??
nEshevIBM_d3m1urgxMissMaVeNxitstrue

Comments

  • WHOAWHOA
    LawBreakers Rep: 630
    Posts: 15
    Member
    edited August 9
    I agree, they could have marketed this game more or delayed the launch to add these things...but it's not like the game runs like dog-sh1t and is completely unplayable. So, dude...I get it...but it's Day 2. I'll side with you maybe after a year or two; for now: Stop crying.

    They had all the time in Beta to change things...
    Don't start acting like nothing changed since Alpha if you never even participated in it. Last two months were just mainly technical tests for Beta.

    In any case, arena shooters have changed a lot since the dawn of Quake and UT. Long gone are the days of boxed editions, word of mouth, and CRT monitors heating up a gymnasium for a LAN tournament. This is a different market today and clearly folks like you and the casuals comparing this to OW don't realize that. There's a fine line between casuals who complain about Harrier and arena shooter veterans who know what they are getting into. It's a niche market, they probably knew that, you probably don't.

    Did you even watch these?




    Do you even know they have a channel with videos since 2015? Did you even follow them?
    They been updating us for almost two years now. Arena shooters aren't for casuals even if it's ironic they put the game on PS4.


    You got to think about it from the other side.
    They have priorities and they need the data/feedback to really prioritize it. Just because say "Lawbreaker9000" wants a gamemode selector: It doesn't mean that actually adds value to the game. A Quick-Play gamemode selector just allows one mode be extremely favored because of it's ease...which then belittles the other gamemodes from ever getting proper attention. There is more to design and development than just "OK, lets do that because it will work guaranteed with no issues!"

    They could do more development...
    They are a small team and this is Boss Key's first major title. They stayed true to what they announced years ago. They didn't fall off that path and give us something else entirely.

    You can't expect them to wave a wand and change things to everyone's favor in a second. These things take time, testing, money... Have you ever coded before? X and Y could take a second to add... but everything needs to be tested and servers need to be taken down to add the patch. A simple change could break the entire game. Would you rather have a completely unplayable game?

    No interest in the community...

    There are far better examples of other games' devs having no interest in the community. This is not at that stage yet. But please, skim through this comment with an ignorant and oblivious attitude because you are fixated on the fact that, on your <2months being here and 2 days into launch, that devs don't listen.

    You crying isn't going to help change everything, it is just making it harder for them to focus on things now that they launched and every casual is busy bitching that this doesn't play like a hand-holding game like LoL or doesn't have a small feature that other games have.

    This game isn't perfect and I'm not saying it is...
    Maybe I'm salty that Alpha players didn't get anything.
    Maybe I'm salty my beta portrait was removed.
    However, that's not going to make me hate them just yet. They still satisfied my itch for an arena shooter and I'm willing to give them a year or two of gametime to see where it takes them.
    ShawnHalogenAsbelWarpig3000ZalamaelProxiiaswedEMDEpoxy
  • lawbreaker9000lawbreaker9000
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,645
    Posts: 259
    Member
    edited August 9
    WHOA wrote: »
    I agree, they could have marketed this game more or delayed the launch to add these things...but it's not like the game runs like dog-sh1t and is completely unplayable. So, dude...I get it...but it's Day 2. I'll side with you maybe after a year or two; for now: Stop crying.

    They had all the time in Beta to change things...
    Don't start acting like nothing changed since Alpha if you never even participated in it. Last two months were just mainly technical tests for Beta.


    You got to think about it from the other side.
    They have priorities and they need the data/feedback to really prioritize it. Just because say "Lawbreaker9000" wants a gamemode selector: It doesn't mean that actually adds value to the game. A Quick-Play gamemode selector just allows one mode be extremely favored because of it's ease...which then belittles the other gamemodes from ever getting proper attention. There is more to design and development than just "OK, lets do that because it will work guaranteed with no issues!"


    Yes you are right they have to priorities...... they have to start prioritiesing things more which most of their community actualy wants and expects to see, like:

    -Ability to chose the gamemode you want to play
    -Two hero stack limit
    -Patching overcharge out of the game
    -Fixing the blitzball gamemode by designing custom maps for this mode
    -Introducing more modes where you dont have to camp the entire round in the most uninteresting spots and small rooms of the map like you do it in occupy, uplink and overcharge.



    Those are the most highly requested things in the community , wouldnt it make sense and be logic to start with those. Most of them wouldnt even be that timeconsuming to do,except of custom maps for blitzball!

    But instead they waste time on creating ludicrous modes like occupy where you have to literaly stand the entire round in a 5 meter big circle and arent allowed to leave the circle if you want to score points.Seriously who comes up for the ideas of gamemodes like this????





    Chilling and tools on reviewsites like metacritic:lawbreakers



    And lets talk a moment about the amount of chilling which is going on in this game.

    Yesterday the average Metacritic PC user rating of Lawbreakers was by 6.4 out of 10 and then in only two hours of time suddenly 40 people/tools/chills showed up which all gave the game 10 /10 .

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/lawbreakers/user-reviews?dist=positive


    With reviews like this:

    "AAA game with an indie price. Seriously, do yourself a favor and get this game. You wont regret it. Also no season pass or pay to win. Support this game."

    Not even people wich work in the advertising business would phrase it in such an obvious manner.
    I mean there are very few games out there which stand the test of time and truely deserve a 10/10 and lawbreaker is not a bad game but its definately not a 10/10 with all the problems it has like:

    -campy gamemodes where you spend most of your time in small rooms or small areas
    -oversimplistic and partwise boring/uninspired map design
    -questionable hero balance (wraith, gunslinger)
    -cant even chose the mode you want to play





    Problems which have to be adressed imediately before anything else can happen
    :


    Those are seriouse problems most of the community are discussing since month.
    I have played the last two betas and everybody, not only i, have told them that:

    - most gamemodes dont work the way they are now
    -not every palyer wants to play every gamemode (different people with different taste...)
    -some core modes alot of people want to see like team death match are missing
    -even if they want to have only objective based modes than they should at least have good modes which dont imply camping most of the round in small rooms
    -they have to desing specific maps for specific game modes and not limit the map design in that way that every map has to be playable in every mode.
    -hero stacking will be a problem because playing against 4 wraith, assassins, gunslingers or juggernauts is not fun
    -there must be a option in the option menu to turn of the for many annoying voice lines of the heros(almost no one wants to hear "armoring up" 50 times a round!)


    None of those points has been adressed since then.
    No one cares about them creating new hero or weapon skins or new heros or new gamemodes like occupy which are even more ridiculous then the old ones, if those core gameplayrelated elements are not fixed!
  • IrishcntIrishcnt
    LawBreakers Rep: 440
    Posts: 26
    Member
    Pretty sure launch priorities are getting the game running well on all platforms. Nothing else

    Also something you may hear a lot on here is "Git gud"
    Which may not be overly helpful but does still apply.

    Ain't no wraith scoring on me in 5 seconds, if they are lucky enough to get the ball I'm on their ass with some jet powered bullets enforcer style until they are dead. I've had some great goal line saves which is super intense.

    Day 2 people are still working out tactics and counter tactics.

    Hope you stick with it!
  • lawbreaker9000lawbreaker9000
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,645
    Posts: 259
    Member
    edited August 9
    Irishcnt wrote: »
    Pretty sure launch priorities are getting the game running well on all platforms. Nothing else

    Also something you may hear a lot on here is "Git gud"
    Which may not be overly helpful but does still apply.

    Ain't no wraith scoring on me in 5 seconds, if they are lucky enough to get the ball I'm on their ass with some jet powered bullets enforcer style until they are dead. I've had some great goal line saves which is super intense.

    Day 2 people are still working out tactics and counter tactics.

    Hope you stick with it!

    What has :

    - most gamemodes dont work the way they are now
    -not every palyer wants to play every gamemode (different people with different taste...)
    -some core modes alot of people want to see like team death match are missing
    -even if they want to have only objective based modes than they should at least have good modes which dont imply camping most of the round in small rooms
    -they have to desing specific maps for specific game modes and not limit the map design in that way that every map has to be playable in every mode.
    -hero stacking will be a problem because playing against 4 wraith, assassins, gunslingers or juggernauts is not fun
    -there must be a option in the option menu to turn of the for many annoying voice lines of the heros(almost no one wants to hear "armoring up" 50 times a round!)

    to do with "Git gud" ?

    I can get as good i want to , it will not help me in any of those things i have mentioned above.
    I am personaly somewhere in the middle field,skillwise . Most of the time i had an average score per round of 30 kills to 10 death.
    I maybe not pro but i think i do ok, but you guys need to stop the chilling or you will get job offerings from Electronic Arts and you dont want that to happen,trust me.
  • Bubbaxm2Bubbaxm2
    LawBreakers Rep: 515
    Posts: 11
    Member
    WHOA wrote: »
    I agree, they could have marketed this game more or delayed the launch to add these things...but it's not like the game runs like dog-sh1t and is completely unplayable. So, dude...I get it...but it's Day 2. I'll side with you maybe after a year or two; for now: Stop crying.

    They had all the time in Beta to change things...
    Don't start acting like nothing changed since Alpha if you never even participated in it. Last two months were just mainly technical tests for Beta.

    In any case, arena shooters have changed a lot since the dawn of Quake and UT. Long gone are the days of boxed editions, word of mouth, and CRT monitors heating up a gymnasium for a LAN tournament. This is a different market today and clearly folks like you and the casuals comparing this to OW don't realize that. There's a fine line between casuals who complain about Harrier and arena shooter veterans who know what they are getting into. It's a niche market, they probably knew that, you probably don't.

    Did you even watch these?




    Do you even know they have a channel with videos since 2015? Did you even follow them?
    They been updating us for almost two years now. Arena shooters aren't for casuals even if it's ironic they put the game on PS4.


    You got to think about it from the other side.
    They have priorities and they need the data/feedback to really prioritize it. Just because say "Lawbreaker9000" wants a gamemode selector: It doesn't mean that actually adds value to the game. A Quick-Play gamemode selector just allows one mode be extremely favored because of it's ease...which then belittles the other gamemodes from ever getting proper attention. There is more to design and development than just "OK, lets do that because it will work guaranteed with no issues!"

    They could do more development...
    They are a small team and this is Boss Key's first major title. They stayed true to what they announced years ago. They didn't fall off that path and give us something else entirely.

    You can't expect them to wave a wand and change things to everyone's favor in a second. These things take time, testing, money... Have you ever coded before? X and Y could take a second to add... but everything needs to be tested and servers need to be taken down to add the patch. A simple change could break the entire game. Would you rather have a completely unplayable game?

    No interest in the community...

    There are far better examples of other games' devs having no interest in the community. This is not at that stage yet. But please, skim through this comment with an ignorant and oblivious attitude because you are fixated on the fact that, on your <2months being here and 2 days into launch, that devs don't listen.

    You crying isn't going to help change everything, it is just making it harder for them to focus on things now that they launched and every casual is busy bitching that this doesn't play like a hand-holding game like LoL or doesn't have a small feature that other games have.

    This game isn't perfect and I'm not saying it is...
    Maybe I'm salty that Alpha players didn't get anything.
    Maybe I'm salty my beta portrait was removed.
    However, that's not going to make me hate them just yet. They still satisfied my itch for an arena shooter and I'm willing to give them a year or two of gametime to see where it takes them.

    I don't disagree with a good chunk of what you said but I can't completely disagree with the OP either. They did listen to some of the community. Unfortunately it was a lot of those that would rather **.** on someone with a different viewpoint than "hey cliff this game is great, let me stroke your choad!"
    Many of the people that have tried to voice opinions on different aspects of this game all the way back to the first alpha were shut down for some reason by the many that just wanted to give props rather than help make a game. Sadly BKP allowed it to happen rather than intervening and letting those that wanted to help actually help, even if the opinions were not popular with them or the choad crowd. Getting stuck in the ever lasting stroking that comes with fanbois is all to easy but unfortunately that comes to an end when the product hits the market.
  • xMissMaVeNxxMissMaVeNx
    LawBreakers Rep: 850
    Posts: 33
    Member
    edited August 10
    Free to play in 3-6 months if they don't start addressing these issues.
    I think i have to do one last topic before i can leave this game alone.This just has to be said.

    So Cliff Bleszinski made advertising for his product by saying in all of his interviews that "one of the trademarks of this game is that they really listen to the community and develop the game together with the community".But sadly that is all talk no action.You dont belive me? Name me one bigger thing they have changed in lawbreakers after listening to the community feedback of the last two month ??


    -Did they change anything about how any of the gamemodes work=?
    Uplink is still the far superior version of overcharge but out of developer nostalgica they refuse to patch overcharge out of the game.

    Wraith,Assassin and Vanguard can still score a goal in blitzball in 5 seconds, because maps are way to small for this gamemode and having to have every match a juggernaut camping in the back of the goal area with shields is also a very boring way to play this mode.

    And this new gamemode, occupy , where you have to camp the entire round in a 5 meter big circle and arent allowed to exit the circle if you want to continue to score points..... which sick(sick doesnt means cool in this case) mind comes on ideas like this.



    -Did they implement 2 hero pick limit so that you dont have to fight against 4 wraith, juggernauts or gunslingers all the time?
    -Did they let you chose the gamemode you want to play?
    -Did they let you turn off the annoying voice lines?
    -Did they re-code the spawning system that way that you dont refill in matches which have only 1 minute of gametime left?
    -Did they implement custom colored crosshairs ?
    -Did they implement a team death match mode or something simular(And dont say Occupy is like TDM, Occupy is a mode where you have to stay the entire match in a 5 meter big circle)?



    Pretty interesting in this reguard is the Interview of Dan Nanni, Lead Designer at Boss Key with the streamer Frothy Omen:




    Omen comunicated that a huge amount of player wants to have a two hero pick limit, turn of the annoying and spamy voice lines, wants to chose the gamemode they want to play and wants to have custom crosshairs.

    And the only thing Dan Nanni had to say to all of those legit points was:
    two hero pick limit: "It would not be fun if you cant pick the hero you want to select in quickplay anymore"

    ability to select the gamemode you want to play:"We can understand that, but we want that all of our gamemodes become playtime,even the sh_it ones which no one wants to play"

    voice line spam: "even when those players find them annoying its good for those players to have the voice lines on, because they warn them for incomming danger they otherwise maybe would have missed" ---> Right , as if i have to hear 50 times in one round "armoring up" or "hashtag your dead bro" in order to have a good situational awerness of what is going on in the game and are total helpless if i dont hear those nonsensical lines anymore ";)"

    They just totaly refuse to admit that they have no gamemode,except of turf war, wich is not entirely build around camping in small rooms or small areas for the entire round (Uplink,Overcharge,Occupy) or scoring points in 5 seconds with only one counterstrat, camping with juggs shield (Blitzball) And they just totaly refuse to change that, even when most of the community tells them that those modes dont work the way they designed them. And that it is not fun to play against 4 gunslingers, 4 wraith or 4 assassins at the same time.

    Its always the same pattern of answering they do in all of their interviews. "We understand that the community wants subject x,y but we cant do that because" and then they always insert a fake advanced reason why x,y is not doable at the moment even when it would be something easy and fast to do like letting the players chose the gamemode they want to play or introducing a 2 hero pick limit.

    The truth is if they would want to create a two hero pick limit they could code it in in less then 2 days, but they dont want to.Because they want the game to be exactly as it is now , with little to no change and you are delusional if you think they change .

    And all this talk about "develop the game together with the community" is only PR talk to make you buy the game.Has it worked? Again tell me which bigger changes they did in the last two month on behave of player feedback??

    Won't last 2 years if they don't start addressing these issues. They really are completely ignoring the desires of their fans, a shame, the game has potential..

    Even if you can't do anything for a few months, give us a roadmap of what is to come and a rough eta on when... surely even a "small team" can manage that.
  • XansaibotXansaibot
    LawBreakers Rep: 375
    Posts: 15
    Member
    Let's take a look at Overwatch(the most popular hero shooter of all time) a year ago, after 3rd day of release. In general:
    - No Ranked(i dont play this, but still)
    - Balance is meh
    - No Custom Crosshairs
    - No Hero Limits(yes, it took them some time to restrict that first in Ranked, then in Casual)
    - No Deathmatch/Team Deathmatch modes
    - And, ofc, mentioned earlier about LB "the spawning system that way that you dont refill in matches which have only 1 minute of gametime left". Yes, in OW after half of year since release i've been constantly returning to the games i left.
    Now look at OW today. DM/TDM modes been added TODAY!!!!!! Since 1,3 year of release.
    So, just give Lawbreakers some time, okay?
    EpoxySpydominator
  • xMissMaVeNxxMissMaVeNx
    LawBreakers Rep: 850
    Posts: 33
    Member
    edited August 10
    Xansaibot wrote: »
    Let's take a look at Overwatch(the most popular hero shooter of all time) a year ago, after 3rd day of release. In general:
    - No Ranked(i dont play this, but still)
    - Balance is meh
    - No Custom Crosshairs
    - No Hero Limits(yes, it took them some time to restrict that first in Ranked, then in Casual)
    - No Deathmatch/Team Deathmatch modes
    - And, ofc, mentioned earlier about LB "the spawning system that way that you dont refill in matches which have only 1 minute of gametime left". Yes, in OW after half of year since release i've been constantly returning to the games i left.
    Now look at OW today. DM/TDM modes been added TODAY!!!!!! Since 1,3 year of release.
    So, just give Lawbreakers some time, okay?

    The problem with that logic is that Blizzard is a multi BILLION dollar company with throngs of fanboys who would play anything they put out in just about any state and are willing to wait around for QoL stuff that should be there already.. and "The Overwatch Team" was very good in laying out roadmaps about upcoming features and content being added down the line, giving people hope enough to hold out.

    Lawbreakers and BossKey are small and new to the scene and most people make up their minds within the first week of launch if they will stick around or come back to it or not or just refund it after an hr or two of play..

    Just Don't think we have that kinda time, imho.

    (I'm not going anywhere, mind you. Already purchased and committed.)
  • itstrueitstrue
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,040
    Posts: 36
    Member
    edited August 10
    Irishcnt wrote: »
    Ain't no wraith scoring on me in 5 seconds,

    You're right, he does it in 3 seconds

  • lawbreaker9000lawbreaker9000
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,645
    Posts: 259
    Member
    edited August 11
    Xansaibot wrote: »
    Let's take a look at Overwatch(the most popular hero shooter of all time) a year ago, after 3rd day of release. In general:
    - No Ranked(i dont play this, but still)
    - Balance is meh
    - No Custom Crosshairs
    - No Hero Limits(yes, it took them some time to restrict that first in Ranked, then in Casual)
    - No Deathmatch/Team Deathmatch modes
    - And, ofc, mentioned earlier about LB "the spawning system that way that you dont refill in matches which have only 1 minute of gametime left". Yes, in OW after half of year since release i've been constantly returning to the games i left.
    Now look at OW today. DM/TDM modes been added TODAY!!!!!! Since 1,3 year of release.
    So, just give Lawbreakers some time, okay?

    Overwatch had at launch 3 gamemodes, from which 2 (payload and king of the hill) where actual fun to play and the third one was fun half of the time.So 83.3 % of the time i enjoy playing it.Lawbreakers has 5 gamemodes, from which only 1 is actual fun to play (turf war) and makes sense gameplaywise.

    So 80 % of playing Lawbreakers, i would play modes i do not enjoy.What sense would that make for me?
    If i would not enjoy 80% of my playtime in overwatch, i never would have stayed with overwatch in the first place.





    Why so many campy gamemodes??


    Lawbreakers works best and is most enjoyable when you are moving around with fast speed, doing cool movement abilitys and focus firering down your enemys, while doing so.Why would you design so many modes in a way that you have to camp most of the time in small rooms or small areas (occupy, overcharge, uplink) ? That just does not make any sense , gameplaywises.I also dont understand the motivation behind designing those modes in this way. What do you gain from 6 player battling it out in a 10 meter small room for most of the round??Its just one giant clusterf_uck for most of the round. Its total caotic and leaves absolut zero room for tactic,strategy and good map positioning.There is absolute no need for positioning your teammates on strategic points of the map when all you have to do is camp in this small rooms,where you cant even look into from the outside,with a decent team comp while loading up your batterie/sattelite. Again why would you design your modes in a way that flanking your enemy and map positioning become absolute unimportant for that modes?





    Biggest problem of the game:

    I think the biggest problem of this game are the chills of this game.
    With chills i mean this part of the playerbase which rate the game 10/10 on all review sites and write reviews like this one:
    "AAA game with an indie price. Seriously, do yourself a favor and get this game. You wont regret it. Also no season pass or pay to win. Support this game."

    Lawbreakers is not a bad game, but it has things which need fixing, like in any other game.
    If the developers only listen to people who say that every single aspect of the game is perfect than there can happen no fixing of the bad parts, which this game has like any other game too.I understand why it is tempting to listen to those people ,but if the devs suround themself only with those kind of peole then they become absolute imune against any kind of critic and suggestions for changes, even when the suggestions are legit and wanted by the majority of player.
    And exactly that happend here. I dont think you can reache them anymore ,they are not open for any suggestions anymore no matter what, they are just too far gone.Only their bodys are still lingering here but there souls are bound to some streamer who streamed titanfall 2 before that and is now fully invested into streaming lawbreakers and is hyping it up like there is no tommorow while he constantly tells the devs that every single aspect of this game is perfect and therfore hinders any progress in making the game better.


    I can almost imagine it in front of my eyes.
    In 3 month from now on the playerbase is lower than 500 and all the developers are sitting together, then Cliffy B. says: "How could that happen, Frothy Omen told us everthing is perfect in our game!"
  • NumbDutsNumbDuts
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,660
    Posts: 233
    Member
    I agree there were some issues before the game launched, but most of those were design choices by the devs, that have been in the game since the beginning (remember, the game devs had a vision for the game. WE didnt have the vision for the game, and then told Bosskey to make the game. There is a very big distinction right there. WE arent entitled to make decisions for Bosskey devs. WE arent entitled to anything having to do with the game. Bosskey was NICE enough to have a lot of testers play the game and give their input on said game. That does not mean that they have to fix the things we dont like, or would rather have in the game instead of what they put in the game).
    And, since they were design choices, they arent issues: They are the way the devs wanted to make the game.
    My only real beef with the game are 2 things:
    1. Maps and modes. They didnt give me enough maps and gamemodes for ME, presonally, to buy the game. That was their decision, not mine, nor anyone elses. MY decision was to not buy the game yet. And, thats really the only decision we get to make. I really like the game, I have supported it, I have tested it, and I would like to keep testing it if they let me. But, there just wasnt enough content for me to buy the game. Again, that is a personal choice.
    2. I do dislike them not giving us options for game modes (which I understand WHY they have done this: It would fragment the community, and people would probably only play 1 map and 1 mode, and thats it. So, where would everyone else playing the game be left? Out in the cold. This was, again, the devs decision, and I think in the short term it is the only decision they could have made. Otherwise the game would have been dead in a month), and I dislike not being able to turn off voices in the game (this is REALLY the only gripe I can truly have for the game. There is NO reason NOT to have the option to disable in-game voices. Taking peoples choices away in how they want to enjoy the game is bad (and, again, not design decisions), and should never be condoned. This is tantamount to telling the player to play with a controller only 'because its a better way to play the game', which it would not be).

    So, really, the only bad thing about the game is not having an option to enable/disable something that is a personal preference, and not a design decision.

    But, YOU did have a choice. You played the game before it launched, and yet you decided to buy the game anyway. That was YOUR choice, not the devs.
    I decided to wait until the game is more fleshed out, has more maps (really, who NEEDS more characters? Not me. I want map choices), and has more options that I personally want in the game. I may have made the right decision (and hopefully did) to wait until there is more content. And, I may have made the wrong decision by waiting to get more of what I want in the game, if the game fails because there arent enough players, I will not have gotten the privilege to play the game while it still had a lot of players. But, again, that was really the only decision I had.
  • lawbreaker9000lawbreaker9000
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,645
    Posts: 259
    Member
    edited August 11
    NumbDuts wrote: »
    I agree there were some issues before the game launched, but most of those were design choices by the devs, that have been in the game since the beginning (remember, the game devs had a vision for the game. WE didnt have the vision for the game, and then told Bosskey to make the game. There is a very big distinction right there. WE arent entitled to make decisions for Bosskey devs. WE arent entitled to anything having to do with the game. Bosskey was NICE enough to have a lot of testers play the game and give their input on said game. That does not mean that they have to fix the things we dont like, or would rather have in the game instead of what they put in the game).
    And, since they were design choices, they arent issues: They are the way the devs wanted to make the game.
    My only real beef with the game are 2 things:
    1. Maps and modes. They didnt give me enough maps and gamemodes for ME, presonally, to buy the game. That was their decision, not mine, nor anyone elses. MY decision was to not buy the game yet. And, thats really the only decision we get to make. I really like the game, I have supported it, I have tested it, and I would like to keep testing it if they let me. But, there just wasnt enough content for me to buy the game. Again, that is a personal choice.
    2. I do dislike them not giving us options for game modes (which I understand WHY they have done this: It would fragment the community, and people would probably only play 1 map and 1 mode, and thats it. So, where would everyone else playing the game be left? Out in the cold. This was, again, the devs decision, and I think in the short term it is the only decision they could have made. Otherwise the game would have been dead in a month), and I dislike not being able to turn off voices in the game (this is REALLY the only gripe I can truly have for the game. There is NO reason NOT to have the option to disable in-game voices. Taking peoples choices away in how they want to enjoy the game is bad (and, again, not design decisions), and should never be condoned. This is tantamount to telling the player to play with a controller only 'because its a better way to play the game', which it would not be).

    So, really, the only bad thing about the game is not having an option to enable/disable something that is a personal preference, and not a design decision.

    But, YOU did have a choice. You played the game before it launched, and yet you decided to buy the game anyway. That was YOUR choice, not the devs.
    I decided to wait until the game is more fleshed out, has more maps (really, who NEEDS more characters? Not me. I want map choices), and has more options that I personally want in the game. I may have made the right decision (and hopefully did) to wait until there is more content. And, I may have made the wrong decision by waiting to get more of what I want in the game, if the game fails because there arent enough players, I will not have gotten the privilege to play the game while it still had a lot of players. But, again, that was really the only decision I had.

    I didnt bought the game.
    30 dollar seems not much but when you dont enjoy 80% or your gametime then 30 dollar is to much.
    At the moment i am still thinking about buying the game somewhere in the future when they change some things for the better.
    But i sadly think this will never happen.

    And all this talk about fragmenting the community is total bs.
    You need to have a community in the first place in order to fracture them.
    But if you make your product so unatractive for most players by questionable gameplay and gamemode decision then there will never grow a decent sized community in the first place. It does not matter if gamemodes which are not fun to play for the majority of player (>80%) cant be played anymore, it is even desirable that those annoying modes disapear out of the mode pool because leaving them in the game would make lawbreakers a less fun game to play overall.


    Forcing people into gamemodes they do not like has never worked in any game before.
    Those people do then one of two things.

    1.They just quit the lobby everytime a mode comes up they dont like and roll again , as long as they get a lobby with one of the gamemodes they want to play.
    2. They just uninstall the game and play something else, its not like there are no other games out there.


    And all this fake hyping up the game and telling people only about the positive and not also about the negative aspects of the game , which all those chills and streamer do, leads only to people buying the game, playing it for one week and then uninstalling it and never touch any other game from BossKey after that.

    I have a vision of how the games i want to play should be.
    BossKey has a vision of how their game should be.

    If those two visions dont fit then i dont buy the game , its as easy as this.
    And given the extremly low playercount:

    http://steamcharts.com/app/350280

    for a game in its first week after release it seems that i am not alone with my opinion.


    The realy sad thing is that this game does so many things really good:

    -The abilitys of most heros
    -The graphics and look of the maps
    -The character animations
    -The weapon art and design

    But there are just 3-4 Key aspects of the game wich they totaly fucked up:

    -mapdesign (even when it got better with the newest two maps)
    -gamemodes
    -annoying voicelines
    - importing missing compfort features like ability to select gamemode, tow hero pick limit and ranked mode

  • bkp_heptadbkp_heptad
    LawBreakers Rep: 450
    Posts: 9
    Boss Key
    Hey lawbreaker9000! Seeing posts like this is actually super helpful for us devs, particularly when we're trying to figure out how to prioritize tasks to better serve our players. Fortunately a lot of your talking points are things we've been discussing around here and want to address. We genuinely hope you'll keep an open mind, and hopefully come back to play LawBreakers as we roll out patches and new content! :)
    ProxiiShawnHalogenkatzekittehNetOnePandapocalypse
  • lawbreaker9000lawbreaker9000
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,645
    Posts: 259
    Member
    edited August 11
    bkp_heptad wrote: »
    Hey lawbreaker9000! Seeing posts like this is actually super helpful for us devs, particularly when we're trying to figure out how to prioritize tasks to better serve our players. Fortunately a lot of your talking points are things we've been discussing around here and want to address. We genuinely hope you'll keep an open mind, and hopefully come back to play LawBreakers as we roll out patches and new content! :)

    Reverse psychology!
    I like.

    One last thing.Do your self a favor and let the community build their own maps with unreal editor, for the game, because that could be the saving grace for your game. Unreal editor is free so everybody can use it and blender is also free so even guys who do not have zbrush, substance designer or maya could build new maps.The playerbase beeing able to build their own maps is the single most beneficial thing you could implement in the game! Without having to code alot of stuff , you only had to change some things in your backend in order to migrate those new maps. And you could include the "best map of the month" in your map pool and therefor would get a lot of very good and cool new maps for your map pool. This game just needs a kickstart, something which overwatch does not have. Im seriouse now.... letting the player build their own maps is probably the only way how you can save this game.
    Sodietcmbaily2
  • XansaibotXansaibot
    LawBreakers Rep: 375
    Posts: 15
    Member
    edited August 11
    NumbDuts wrote: »
    I agree there were some issues before the game launched, but most of those were design choices by the devs, that have been in the game since the beginning (remember, the game devs had a vision for the game. WE didnt have the vision for the game, and then told Bosskey to make the game. There is a very big distinction right there. WE arent entitled to make decisions for Bosskey devs. WE arent entitled to anything having to do with the game. Bosskey was NICE enough to have a lot of testers play the game and give their input on said game. That does not mean that they have to fix the things we dont like, or would rather have in the game instead of what they put in the game).
    And, since they were design choices, they arent issues: They are the way the devs wanted to make the game.
    My only real beef with the game are 2 things:
    1. Maps and modes. They didnt give me enough maps and gamemodes for ME, presonally, to buy the game. That was their decision, not mine, nor anyone elses. MY decision was to not buy the game yet. And, thats really the only decision we get to make. I really like the game, I have supported it, I have tested it, and I would like to keep testing it if they let me. But, there just wasnt enough content for me to buy the game. Again, that is a personal choice.
    2. I do dislike them not giving us options for game modes (which I understand WHY they have done this: It would fragment the community, and people would probably only play 1 map and 1 mode, and thats it. So, where would everyone else playing the game be left? Out in the cold. This was, again, the devs decision, and I think in the short term it is the only decision they could have made. Otherwise the game would have been dead in a month), and I dislike not being able to turn off voices in the game (this is REALLY the only gripe I can truly have for the game. There is NO reason NOT to have the option to disable in-game voices. Taking peoples choices away in how they want to enjoy the game is bad (and, again, not design decisions), and should never be condoned. This is tantamount to telling the player to play with a controller only 'because its a better way to play the game', which it would not be).

    So, really, the only bad thing about the game is not having an option to enable/disable something that is a personal preference, and not a design decision.

    But, YOU did have a choice. You played the game before it launched, and yet you decided to buy the game anyway. That was YOUR choice, not the devs.
    I decided to wait until the game is more fleshed out, has more maps (really, who NEEDS more characters? Not me. I want map choices), and has more options that I personally want in the game. I may have made the right decision (and hopefully did) to wait until there is more content. And, I may have made the wrong decision by waiting to get more of what I want in the game, if the game fails because there arent enough players, I will not have gotten the privilege to play the game while it still had a lot of players. But, again, that was really the only decision I had.

    I didnt bought the game.
    30 dollar seems not much but when you dont enjoy 80% or your gametime then 30 dollar is to much.
    At the moment i am still thinking about buying the game somewhere in the future when they change some things for the better.
    But i sadly think this will never happen.

    And all this talk about fragmenting the community is total bs.
    You need to have a community in the first place in order to fracture them.
    But if you make your product so unatractive for most players by questionable gameplay and gamemode decision then there will never grow a decent sized community in the first place. It does not matter if gamemodes which are not fun to play for the majority of player (>80%) cant be played anymore, it is even desirable that those annoying modes disapear out of the mode pool because leaving them in the game would make lawbreakers a less fun game to play overall.


    Forcing people into gamemodes they do not like has never worked in any game before.
    Those people do then one of two things.

    1.They just quit the lobby everytime a mode comes up they dont like and roll again , as long as they get a lobby with one of the gamemodes they want to play.
    2. They just uninstall the game and play something else, its not like there are no other games out there.


    And all this fake hyping up the game and telling people only about the positive and not also about the negative aspects of the game , which all those chills and streamer do, leads only to people buying the game, playing it for one week and then uninstalling it and never touch any other game from BossKey after that.

    I have a vision of how the games i want to play should be.
    BossKey has a vision of how their game should be.

    If those two visions dont fit then i dont buy the game , its as easy as this.
    And given the extremly low playercount:

    http://steamcharts.com/app/350280

    for a game in its first week after release it seems that i am not alone with my opinion.


    The realy sad thing is that this game does so many things really good:

    -The abilitys of most heros
    -The graphics and look of the maps
    -The character animations
    -The weapon art and design

    But there are just 3-4 Key aspects of the game wich they totaly fucked up:

    -mapdesign (even when it got better with the newest two maps)
    -gamemodes
    -annoying voicelines
    - importing missing compfort features like ability to select gamemode, tow hero pick limit and ranked mode

    1. Check Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siiege playercount since december 2015 to august 2016. U will notice that playerbase was dead until august, when it slowly began to grow in numbers. It happened because of good updates. What makes u think same won't happen with LB?
    2. http://www.pcgamer.com/cliff-bleszinski-says-hes-not-worried-about-lawbreakers-slow-start/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0 please, read this. Maybe u will begin something about the game more than just constantly saying about game being dead or smth.
    MAX2
  • lawbreaker9000lawbreaker9000
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,645
    Posts: 259
    Member
    edited August 11
    Xansaibot wrote: »

    1. Check Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siiege playercount since december 2015 to august 2016. U will notice that playerbase was dead until august, when it slowly began to grow in numbers. It happened because of good updates. What makes u think same won't happen with LB?
    2. http://www.pcgamer.com/cliff-bleszinski-says-hes-not-worried-about-lawbreakers-slow-start/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0 please, read this. Maybe u will begin something about the game more than just constantly saying about game being dead or smth.

    A game can definately be revived after it died of when the developer pushes good new content out and fixes issues.
    I never have doubt that. But therefore some changes needs to be made to the game and if they will do so only time will tell.

    But this game is not dead yet, but its also not realy alive at the moment.
    Its in some inbetween state.Lost in transition.


    Like in stephen kings "langoliers" , where a group of people falls asleep while traveling in an airplane and when they wake up again the airplane still flys with them on board but beside of them there is no person onboard anymore, not even the pilot . And after they manage to land the plane with the autopilot on the next airport , the airport is also completly empty.That book definately deserved a better movieadaptation , like the dark tower does.
  • lawbreaker9000lawbreaker9000
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,645
    Posts: 259
    Member
    edited August 11
    The Devs should look at the Lawbreakers Review from Gameinformer:

    http://www.gameinformer.com/games/lawbreakers/b/pc/archive/2017/08/11/a-passionless-prison-for-great-gameplay.aspx

    Danniel Tack wrote something which really resonated with how i see the game at the moment:


    Danniel Tack (score 78/100):
    "However, that fun core ultimately suffers from a lack of personality and differentiation. Even after almost 15 hours of gameplay, I can’t really tell the difference between many of the classes at distance (and you’re never in close range for more than a second in most circumstances). The dialogue never sparks a reaction beyond a “meh” with witty quips like “worse than jetlag” and randomly barked swear words that carry zero weight. It’s unfortunate that the character with the most distinct identity is the Blitzball. Voiced by Justin Roiland of Rick and Morty fame, the talking objective is mind-numbingly annoying with its constant cries of “It’s time for Blitzballlllllll!” but at least it has defining characteristics. The rest of the cast is soulless husks only as interesting as their loadouts.

    The same can be said about the selection of game modes, which feel way too alike. Whether you’re charging up a battery, waiting for an uplink to download, or simply trying to hold a location, almost all the modes focus on defending or attacking a spot. While there’s nothing inherently wrong with that, having similar game modes takes its toll even just after a few hours of play. Repetition isn’t always a bad thing, but combined with maps that lack depth and flavor and the aforementioned character issues, the game ends up feeling like one never-ending chain of the same, same, same."
    Amen.
  • BliglibooBligliboo
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,070
    Posts: 81
    Member
    (bad english)

    Hello,

    @lawbreaker9000: I think you exaggerate a little bit, and often choose just what you want to see. But after all, you have your own taste about the game, and for sure we don't have the same taste, because for example, personally i enjoy most of the games in Lawbreakers.

    I saw this video of FrothyOmen about Dan Nanni's interview. And for game modes, Dan Nanni says also that if they make the possibility for people to choose the game modes they want, this can divide the community and make maybe some game modes unplayable. For example, i remember when i played Titanfall 2, sometimes i wanted to play a specific game mode but i wasn't able to play this mode because nobody played it. I don't remember which game mode it was, but it was a game mode without titans because i feel like the gameplay with titans in multiplayer is boring and too slow.

    For now, Lawbreakers doesn't have a big playerbase. So actually i think that it's a good thing for to not add the possibility to choose the game mode you want because this can just divide the player base which isn't very big actually. And this can make the matchmaking much longer, more waiting time and maybe this can add the thing that you will not be able to play the game mode you want because not enough players plays it.

    BUT, maybe they can finally add the possibility to choose the game mode you want with a possibility to just find a quick match like actually with another possibility where you can choose between all the game modes. So the people who want to play a specific game mode can choose this option, and other people can just choose the option of quickmatch just for to play more quickly in any game mode. Personally i like the diversity of playing different game modes. But i am not a developper, and i don't know what type of effects those changes can make. For example, if they make the possibility to choose between all gamemodes, maybe they need to add more servers or something? (so, maybe more money for this) I don't know, it's not my job, but maybe it's not as easy as we can think.

    But if they want to create a ranked mode in future, i think they need to choose between all game modes or just a few. They can't create a specific ranked mode for each mode.

    For the changes they made, i clearly see some of them:

    _ balance changes: everybody was complaining on specific classes which was too strong or too weak, and they made good changes.

    _customize crosshairs: they added some new crosshairs which aren't very visible for most of the people and aren't very diversified, but it's a good step.

    _ and they added some changes in options, UI, new game modes, maps etc...

    Behind this game, there is no a big company like Activision/Blizzard, i think we need to think about it a little bit. They need to focus on the most important things first like game stability for all platforms, bugs and things like that. And after this, focus on other smaller things. But this can take some time.

    In France, for example, the biggest gaming websites just starts to add more news about this game, and soon, there will be some reviews with tests, ratings etc... Most of the people wasn't even aware about this game before. And hopefully, this can attract more people and youtubers/streamers, for the success of the game.

    I don't say that this game don't need any changes. Personally i would like to see, for example, more customization for crosshairs, faster matchmaking for leavers (because lot of people leaves games) and other things. I just think we need to keep giving some feedback and wait a little bit more for more changes. It's just the beginning.
    MAX2
  • lawbreaker9000lawbreaker9000
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,645
    Posts: 259
    Member
    edited August 12
    Bligliboo wrote: »
    (bad english)

    Hello,

    @lawbreaker9000: I think you exaggerate a little bit, and often choose just what you want to see. But after all, you have your own taste about the game, and for sure we don't have the same taste, because for example, personally i enjoy most of the games in Lawbreakers.

    I saw this video of FrothyOmen about Dan Nanni's interview. And for game modes, Dan Nanni says also that if they make the possibility for people to choose the game modes they want, this can divide the community and make maybe some game modes unplayable. For example, i remember when i played Titanfall 2, sometimes i wanted to play a specific game mode but i wasn't able to play this mode because nobody played it. I don't remember which game mode it was, but it was a game mode without titans because i feel like the gameplay with titans in multiplayer is boring and too slow.

    For now, Lawbreakers doesn't have a big playerbase. So actually i think that it's a good thing for to not add the possibility to choose the game mode you want because this can just divide the player base which isn't very big actually. And this can make the matchmaking much longer, more waiting time and maybe this can add the thing that you will not be able to play the game mode you want because not enough players plays it.


    I gave already an answer to that three or four posts above your post:

    And all this talk about fragmenting the community is total bs.
    You need to have a community in the first place in order to fracture them.
    But if you make your product so unatractive for most players by questionable gameplay and gamemode decision then there will never grow a decent sized community in the first place. It does not matter if gamemodes which are not fun to play for the majority of player (>80%) cant be played anymore or get not that much playtime, it is even desirable that those annoying modes disapear out of the mode pool because leaving them in the game would make lawbreakers a less fun game to play overall.


    Forcing people into gamemodes they do not like has never worked in any game before.
    Those people do then one of two things:

    1.They just quit the lobby everytime a mode comes up they dont like and roll again , as long as they get a lobby with one of the gamemodes they want to play.
    2. They just uninstall the game and play something else, its not like there are no other games out there.


    Bligliboo wrote: »

    Behind this game, there is no a big company like Activision/Blizzard, i think we need to think about it a little bit. They need to focus on the most important things first like game stability for all platforms, bugs and things like that. And after this, focus on other smaller things. But this can take some time.

    In France, for example, the biggest gaming websites just starts to add more news about this game, and soon, there will be some reviews with tests, ratings etc... Most of the people wasn't even aware about this game before. And hopefully, this can attract more people and youtubers/streamers, for the success of the game.

    I don't say that this game don't need any changes. Personally i would like to see, for example, more customization for crosshairs, faster matchmaking for leavers (because lot of people leaves games) and other things. I just think we need to keep giving some feedback and wait a little bit more for more changes. It's just the beginning.




    They are maybe not as big as Dice,Blizzard or Activision but there are alot of changes they could do like:


    -ability to select your own gamemode
    -restrict the unnessesary voice line spam (especialy juggernauts "armoring up" which he spams every 5 seconds!)
    -two hero pick limit against annoying hero stacking
    -costum colored crosshairs which are easier to see then the normal white ones
    -implementing a team death match mode or free for all
    -letting the player design their own maps and import those into the game

    Those things could be done very fast with not much effort for the developers to do so. But they dont want to do them, i figure, because out of idiology thinking not out of practical thinking.


    Its basically pretty easy. If you force your playerbase to play gamemodes they absolutely do not want to play because those modes are badly designed and involve camping in small rooms for most of the round (occupy,uplink,overcharge) or the mapsize does not fit to the gamemode(blitzball) than most people just dont buy the game in the first place because they do not want to play 80% of their time (4 out of 5 modes) annoying desinged modes. I really dont know why this is so difficult for you guys to understand. And many of the people who did buy the game , drop out one or two weeks later because they just cant stand playing the same campy gamemodes over and over again.

    And that means for you guys who find the game absolute perfect that you can forget about ranked mode because the playerbase will not be diversified enough to support a efficient matchmaking algorithm, which means the algorithm will spawn you again and again together with the same people which are not even remotely the same skill level as you are.

    So in order to get to a large playerbase you must implement the ability to chose the gamemode and then people will buy into it because they can play the mode they like best and the community will grow large enough that it will be absolute no problem that not everyone plays every gamemode and every gamemode has enough player.But again in order for that to happen you need to allow the players in the first place to play what they like or they will never support a game where they play 80% of their time modes they dont like.

    Its a bit a Cause of paradox.



    By the way did you check my other post:

    http://forums.lawbreakers.nexon.net/discussion/comment/10905/#Comment_10905

    where i explain in detail why the voice lines in this game do not work and why the voice lines in overwatch work so much better!

    Just scroll down to the last post of mine in the "gameinformer review" topic and then you can read it.
    Bligliboo
  • NumbDutsNumbDuts
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,660
    Posts: 233
    Member
    If I was amoderator on these forums I would close this thread.
    For a few reasons:
    1. Your opionions have been noted, and by a Bosskey employee as well.
    2. There has been discussion back and forth on the subject, which is good, but...
    3. The same thing is being said over and over and over. More posts are going to get the same results, based on previous posts.
    4. The same points have been made by many other users in the forums (myself included), so there is no new info in this post.

    But by all means, do what you want, its your forums.
    Epoxy
This discussion has been closed.