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Assassin needs some changes.. let's talk about it!

LawBreakers Rep: 1,000
Posts: 2
In Closed Beta 3, the Assassin class felt like it was in a good spot. The Arc Blades felt like her primary weapon and Romerus felt like a dependable secondary. In Open beta, the Arc Blade range was reduced from 600 to 400, the Romerus was buffed in both Magazine Size (4 > 5) and Charge speed (0.8s > 0.7s), and the Dash / Grapple cooldown was reduced (4.5s > 4s). Her Frenzy ability was also heavily buffed, increasing the AOE range (600 > 650), and health restored on a hit (35 > 70)

These changes made Assassin players play very differently in Open Beta. I noticed a lot of people heavily relying on Romerus as a primary weapon and only using their Arc Blades when they were using the Grapple or Frenzy abilities. As far as I know, this is not how Assassin was intended to be played, players are supposed to be able to use the Arc Blades and the Romerus together to kill their enemies. I typically use the Arc Blades up close and swap to Romerus to kill enemies I can't close the gap on.

The Romerus also has an issue that I'd like to bring up. Currently with the Romerus, it has a 5 round magazine, and a "Charge Fire" alternative fire that uses the whole magazine. When you left click, an instant shot that does a small but consistent amount of damage is fired and that consumes 1 of the 5 rounds of the magazine. When you right click, a charged shot that takes 0.7 seconds to fire is shot that deals a considerably larger amount of damage and consumes all of the remaining ammo in a magazine, whether it has 5 rounds left or 1 round left. With how the Romerus is now, you have the ability to fire either 1 right click, OR 4 left clicks followed by one right click. This is a 400 damage difference in-between the 2 uses of one magazine. Currently when you use a charged shot it will do full damage no matter how much ammo is remaining in the magazine at the time of use.

Here's what I think needs to be done to make Assassin played how the class was intended to be played:

Increase the Arc Blade Range to 500 from 400. This will make the Arc Blades viable as a primary once again, not bringing them up to the state that they were at in CB3.

Restore 1 Dash / Grapple Charge on every successful Arc Blade Kill - OR - Reduce the cooldown of the Dash / Grapple ability to 3 / 3.5 seconds from 4 seconds.

Decrease the health restored per hit in Frenzy from 70 to 50 / 55, to account for the range increase of Arc Blades that is previously mentioned.

When Frenzy is used, your 3 Dash / Grapple charges should be immediately restored, allowing you to close the gap on an enemy. (I've found that I typically use these 3 charges to close the gap on a group of enemies I want to use Frenzy on, and then get stuck in Frenzy without being able to reach other enemies.)

Romerus, oh Romerus... I have two different solutions to the Charge Shot issue previously mentioned that I think would put the gun in a good place.

Charge fire's damage could be scaled dependent upon the amount of remaining ammo in the magazine - OR - Charge fire can not be used unless you have a full magazine.

Overall, I believe these changes would put the Assassin class in a much better place.

Let me know your thoughts on these suggestions or if you have any of your own!


  • JMaulerJMauler
    LawBreakers Rep: 540
    Posts: 2
    My opinion on the matter. From about 75 hours on assassin through all the betas, I've picked up a few things, and let's just say, your first paragraph I could not agree more with.

    Assassin was the most balanced in CB3, but she was overshadowed by the Wraith & Juggernaut. This caused her to seem weak by comparison and was therefore not played as often. I think this is why BKP decided to change her. I'm not going to go through all the changes because @EthanBenard went through them already. I will simply agree and/or disagree with what he is saying and why/why not the changes shown above are appropriate.

    Romerus was yet again a beast while the blades were less inviting to play with because of the melee range change (600 -> 400). I still don't know how that's calculated and what that range even means but my best guess would be a cone in front of you and if you hit straight down the middle you get the new precision damage. (I will assume I'm correct for this next part) With that said, my change would be to increase from 400 -> 450 and decrease the size of the cone so that when you are slashing with the blades you cannot slash with the target barely in your FOV (I play at 100 FOV if that helps). Sometimes I would be slashes and it hits someone that's not even on my screen and I don't think that's fair for either of us. I think 500 would be a bit too much because the best way to use the blades is to grapple then finish out the combo. It was incredibly difficult to actually get a full combo off (although if you're grappling to an enemy it only takes 2 slashes to finish for most of the cast). Although if you do increase the range of the melee, you would have to also increase the kick range because of obvious reasons.

    The romerus clip size is 5, which was increased from 4 and now the charge time is .7s (down from .8s). I thought this buff was unnecessary, and I once again saw people only using the romerus. I also saw people only using the charge shot because it basically 2 shots everyone but Juggernaut (if all projectiles hit). This is not how assassin was intended to play, but every buff to it makes it that much more viable as a way to play. I say revert the changes done to romerus, or at least the charge time.

    Ethan also brought up a good point (whether it is a bug or feature) that the romerus uses 1 round in the magazine to fire 1 shot or a charged shot which consumes all rounds in the clip. Although I disagree with what he is saying, it's still a good conversation. In the second open beta (latest) you can shoot 4 rounds and then charge and still have the full 270 damage potential from that charged shot. Each 1 round shot has a damage potential of 100, therefore the full damage potential of a full clip using it the most efficient way possible is to shoot 4 rounds and charge and if all those projectiles hit, you have 670 damage. The key word there is IF. If you hit every single one of those projectiles, I think you deserve that much damage because with a projectile weapon that spreads fast, hitting all those shots is almost impossible. And the most efficient way is not always the best way. You can lay 4 rounds of single shots into an enemy, or you can surprise them by charging up a shot and hit all projectiles, it's just a matter of how much does the surprise factor play So whether that is a bug or a feature, I say keep it.

    I don't agree with the restore a shift on successful blade kill or the decreased cooldown. I do think that assassin should have a little lower cooldown compared to the gunslinger on the movement. Gunslinger felt too safe and with the same cooldown on movement abilities, there is almost no outplay potential for assassin. I thought the change on the dash cooldown (4.5 -> 4) was fine-ish, but maybe too much.

    Ethan then talks about Frenzy and oh boy you guys made it an I-Win button. 70 health restored on slash is too much and makes people try to get out of position just to use this ult. I think the change on the range (600 -> 650) was fine and almost needed as the range (or bug with the range) during CB3 was wacky. Here's what I think should be changed with this. Not a flat number but a range of numbers based off of how much you do with the blades. So if I ult and get 100 damage from my first slash, it should restore ~50 health. But if I miss the precision slash, it should restore ~25 health. Basically half of the damage dealt with blades should restore back to the assassin. In the latest build, someone who is ulted can go around holding LMB dealing 50 per slash restore 70 health upon hitting each of those slashes. I don't think that's intended and why would anyone ever do that but you guys get my point.

    Definitely disagree with the upon ulting, restore all my dashes because when you ult, it's not an I-Win button.

    Obviously, I don't have a test build to test anything I just said out so these possible changes aren't perfect but I think they will put assassin in a much better place. Thanks to @EthanBenard for posting this and sharing it with everyone, and it definitely sparked some of my changes!

    Bye now!
  • SavageFluxSavageFlux
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,020
    Posts: 73
    edited August 2, 2017
    Currently with the Romerus, it has a 5 round magazine, and a "Charge Fire" alternative fire that uses the whole magazine. When you left click, an instant shot that does a small but consistent amount of damage is fired and that consumes 1 of the 5 rounds of the magazine. When you right click, a charged shot that takes 0.7 seconds to fire is shot that deals a considerably larger amount of damage and consumes all of the remaining ammo in a magazine, whether it has 5 rounds left or 1 round left

    I keep seeing people say this and I need to correct it, yes you do the same amount of damage after firing 4 regular shots and doing a charge shot as you do when just doing the charge shot, but it's not about flat damage it's about damage over time, except in the highly unlikely situation where 1-4 regular shots and a charged shot will kill whoever you're up against, firing 4 regular shots then a charged shot and then reloading is causing the exact same amount of damage over time as firing a charged shot, reloading and then firing 4 regular shots. They are the same so it's neither a bug nor a feature, it's just logical.

    That said, I'm in agreement with some of your proposed changes but not others, I don't think the arc blades range need to be increased, or at least maybe not as far as 500, 450 would be the maximum needed, or just leave it at 400 as it's the same range as everyone else's melee.

    The dash and grapple cool downs could use with a little bit more shortening, maybe somewhere around 3.7 or 3.8 seconds, certainly not 3 seconds as that would be way too powerful, and I don't think they should be restored upon kills, whilst it would work for the class and play style, it just seems a little too much. However I do believe that the frenzy ability should restore at least 1 of the charges to allow you to get around and not die as soon as you can't reach people.

    The romerus seems to be a hot topic this beta but it seems fine to me, maybe that's because I rarely rely on it and still generally score very well, but I can see why people would be annoyed by it after going up against other assassin's who only use it, so perhaps just bring ita clip size back down? It seemed pretty good on the previous beta.
  • KangaJooKangaJoo
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,935
    Posts: 199
    Just wanted to point out at high level play, tournaments and pugs, assassins were top or close to top fragging pretty consistently and that they were almost exclusively using the romerus. At one point during the tournament on Sunday the commentators pointed out that neither assassin had even used their blades during an ult. I think it's pretty obvious that the class isn't being played as intended and I agree JMauler that cb3 seemed like it was the most balanced. It feels like they buffed the romerus to keep up with the old enforcer, jugg, and wraith but now that those classes got nerfed, the romerus doesn't need that sort of a buff unless you don't want people to ever use the blades.
    LawBreakers Rep: 510
    Posts: 12
    3 numerical changes is all you've got to offer?

    You're fired.
  • PhasedragonPhasedragon
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,115
    Posts: 32
    edited August 6, 2017
    The problem with assassin blades is that they simply cannot work in any competitive sense without becoming what wraith is. Even in CB3, you had to rely on Romerus and blades were just a little extra at the end of a magazine if you were close enough to use them.

    If you've seen how harrier works, their kick is a bit special. For consuming a bit of ammo, it's replaced with an attack that does a lot more damage and more knockback than normal kicks. if they're willing to change harrier's melee to something other than a kick, it would be cool if they changed assassin's kick to blades. Why would assassin want to kick people away when you get into melee range? Other than knocking people off the map, which can be done with a flux grenade or charged romerus. In my opinion, the switch time is what really cripples the blades, so changing the kick to blades and giving the opportunity to seamlessly switch into them would give them a lot more use.