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Aim Implementation Feedback & Vital Improvements

Desert_PunkDesert_Punk
LawBreakers Rep: 845
Posts: 12
Member
edited July 31 in PS4 Beta Gameplay Feedback & Suggestions
Devs I know your time is precious (I am a dev myself) so I'll be quick and concise. Apologies in advance if I come across as arrogant and / or too harsh.

maxresdefault.jpg

You are looking at the best aim settings a console FPS could ask. I know you have priorities and cannot implement / emulate everything you see here so I will start with the most vital aim settings LawBreakers is missing, in order:


1) An outer threshold slider that sets the max turn speed threshold (red circle in image).
Many early DS4 controllers, mine included, do not report correctly when the sticks are fully pegged and suffer from what is called slow turn. This allows to set said threshold at an earlier tilt angle, avoiding the issue. It also allows to get rid of the misleading "Dual Zone" aim style by allowing the player to decide exactly where his max turn speed threshold (the outer zone of the Dual Zone) lies.


2) An aim smoothing slider that controls how much your input is averaged.
Many old school hardcore players prefer a 1:1 non-adulterated reflection down to the smallest, twitchiest inputs. The current smoothing is a bit on the high side which can be wrongly perceived as input lag.


3) A response curve slider spawning from completely linear at one end to a high degree exponential at the other end (blue graph in image).
Let the players decide exactly what response curve better suits them. To avoid overwhelming new players keep a few pre-defined response curves with names like "Smooth" or "Twitchy".


These are the must-haves LawBreakers requires if it wants to boast world class console aim configurability that matches its world class fast paced, gravity defying combat. At the moment the console aiming lags behind the top tier gameplay.

I appreciate any attention you can spend towards this matter. And a big THANK YOU for having a separate console section on the forums.
kompastSabakuNoYoukaiseraphmageStrongSideXCCutemrceDerisatMadaMadaDaNaNetOneBKP_NathanWulf

Comments

  • moondogemoondoge
    LawBreakers Rep: 310
    Post: 1
    Member
    edited July 31
    I also have concerns regarding the aiming system in LB. The general settings are fine, and do work for me, quite a lot of customization there. The concern i have is with the wide range of characters and they're play styles, I would like to have a custom sensitivity binded to each one. The assassin class you want vary fast sensitivity to swipe at jumping strafing enemies, but gunslinger a slower more precise aiming speed works better. Having sensitivity settings for each character is a good quality of life change.
    Derisat
  • SabakuNoYoukaiSabakuNoYoukai
    LawBreakers Rep: 690
    Posts: 15
    Member
    edited August 1
    THIS. SO. MUCH.

    Seriously, I cannot stress this enough. Aiming will make or break this game on consoles. Do NOT make the assumption that people cannot aim with thumbsticks and restrict our options. This will only cap the top players and decrease the skill ceiling, which will only hurt the LawBreakers competitive scene.

    Please do not prioritize character balancing issues until you have nailed the aiming system on console. Many complaints are misplaced due to people struggling with the aiming, whether they realize it or not. I've seen this in Overwatch: the perception that Pharah is overpowered due to the combo with Mercy, when in fact it's the aiming that is so gimped hitscan characters have a really hard time hitting her consistently.
    seraphmageXCCutemrceMadaMadaDaNa
  • seraphmageseraphmage
    LawBreakers Rep: 865
    Posts: 30
    Member
    I completely agree with the OP's input here. Advanced input controls could make a huge difference in the console experience of Lawbreakers and is crucial for competitive play. While there is a fair amount of prejudice toward gamepads in the gaming community the reality is that skillful aim with a controller is possible. It is a skill within itself that requires the development of different muscle memory and reflexes than using a mouse and keyboard. There are even pro-level controllers available on the market that allow for more precise input (see the Razer Raiju and the Nacon Revolution). Providing advanced controls such as those in the OP's post could really take the console experience to the next level.
    SabakuNoYoukaiDesert_PunkStrongSidemrce
  • SabakuNoYoukaiSabakuNoYoukai
    LawBreakers Rep: 690
    Posts: 15
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    Do devs not watch this forum? There are not that many posts being made so it's not like they can't read them fast enough. I am willing to bet if this was a mouse acceleration issue it would be acknowledged and fixed within a day.

    The game is fun, more balanced that Overwatch can ever hope to be, does not hold your hand (unlike many FPS out there), as a high skill floor and ceiling and can be a serious contender to eSports on console. However me ordering the game hinges on whether the aiming on console will be top tier along with CoD, BF and Titanfall and also that devs care about console and are not looking to make a quick buck. Take a hint or two from the Paladins dev team that keep adding console aiming options on a F2P game.
    mrce
  • StrongSideStrongSide
    LawBreakers Rep: 550
    Posts: 13
    Member
    +1 on this issue.

    Aiming felt restrictive at times. We need more options.

    And please increase max sensitivity. 100 still felt slow and I could not turn fast enough on people shooting behind me.

    I also could not tell the difference between Dual Zone and Default aim styles.

    Perhaps OP should post this in the Technical Issues section?
    seraphmageMadaMadaDaNa
  • StrongSideStrongSide
    LawBreakers Rep: 550
    Posts: 13
    Member
    edited August 2
    Just realized I have the same slow turn issue OP mentioned on my Killzone special edition controller. I felt like I couldn't turn left as fast as I could turn right but dismissed it thinking it was due to my thumbstick being worn out. Going on Titanfall and setting that red circle as wide as possible makes it very noticeable.

    We really need an option to set this outer threshold!
  • XCCuteXCCute
    LawBreakers Rep: 600
    Posts: 15
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    Glad to see I'm not the only one thinking this. I'm done with Overwatch due to the casual, hand holding nature of the game but mainly because the aiming system in that game is atrocious.

    Looking for more skillful pastures I tried LawBreakers and was immediately hooked to the insane mobility and fast pace of this game. No hand holding, get good or go home kind of mentality.

    But the aiming is, quite frankly, subpar.

    I don't know the gist like OP but the aiming feels heavy and micro adjustments are difficult. When I hold the analogue stick at an angle turning starts slow and speeds up after a while until reaching the proper speed for that deflection angle, as opposed to instantly turning at that speed. Like there is some sort of delayed acceleration, and is even more noticeable at high sensitivities.

    Maybe the devs should try playing DOOM on console, aiming in that game feels really good and instant after you turn aim smoothing off.
    mrceSabakuNoYoukaiMadaMadaDaNa
  • Desert_PunkDesert_Punk
    LawBreakers Rep: 845
    Posts: 12
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    edited August 3
    XCCute wrote: »
    Glad to see I'm not the only one thinking this. I'm done with Overwatch due to the casual, hand holding nature of the game but mainly because the aiming system in that game is atrocious.

    Looking for more skillful pastures I tried LawBreakers and was immediately hooked to the insane mobility and fast pace of this game. No hand holding, get good or go home kind of mentality.

    But the aiming is, quite frankly, subpar.

    I don't know the gist like OP but the aiming feels heavy and micro adjustments are difficult. When I hold the analogue stick at an angle turning starts slow and speeds up after a while until reaching the proper speed for that deflection angle, as opposed to instantly turning at that speed. Like there is some sort of delayed acceleration, and is even more noticeable at high sensitivities.

    Maybe the devs should try playing DOOM on console, aiming in that game feels really good and instant after you turn aim smoothing off.

    When you mention delayed acceleration you're describing the Turning Ramp Up Delay on Titanfall settings image. As you can see Titanfall has it turned off by default (black arrows mean default values), meaning turning acceleration is instant -- as it should be -- since it gives the most immediate response when you deflect your thumbstick. It usually exists to prevent less skilled players who lack mechanical finesse from overshooting their aim. Clearly LawBreakers has some amount of Turning Ramp Up Delay that is causing you to feel that way, which is a sign you can muster enough finesse for the delay to mess with your aim instead of helping it.

    I didn't mention it in my OP because I didn't feel it was aggravating enough to make it a priority for devs, but I would definitely like to see it added to the settings later, a number 4) if you will.
    XCCuteseraphmageStrongSideSabakuNoYoukaiMadaMadaDaNa
  • seraphmageseraphmage
    LawBreakers Rep: 865
    Posts: 30
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    The devs are typically very responsive. There was a big Lawbreakers event this week so it's quite possible that they are a bit back logged with the forums and catching up. I'm sure the impending release of the game itself is also keeping them busy.

    The official Lawbreakers Discord is another great place to connect with the developers. Aside from answering questions, they often get involved in casual discussions about the game and the direction in which players would like to see it taken.

    @Desert_Punk: If you haven't already done so, it might be worth hopping on Discord and attempting to engage in some discussion with one of the devs. I think you've hit on some critical points here that are worth attention. Thanks again for the post.


  • StrongSideStrongSide
    LawBreakers Rep: 550
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    edited August 4
    I know this is a bit nitpicking but I think we should be able to see a circle representation of the deadzone size like in the image. Every time you make adjustments to the slider you have to back out of the settings and "feel" it instead. A visual representation would go a long way when tweaking the aiming settings.

    Of course this is not a priority, just the fact of being able to change the deadzone makes me glad already. The OP's points are more important and should be fixed first.
  • mrcemrce
    LawBreakers Rep: 420
    Posts: 2
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    edited August 5
    This settings should be a forced minimum standard by ps4/xbox.
    For me the unbelievable varieties of aiming methods on console for each game (each of them complete different and final) is a mess.

    What a beautiful world, where you can jump in every game and it feels (nearly) the same (in case of look controls).
    StrongSideSabakuNoYoukai
  • StrongSideStrongSide
    LawBreakers Rep: 550
    Posts: 13
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    Went on the Titanfall 2 demo just to mess with these options and after some tweaking I was amazed at how much I could improve the aim feel. The defaults are good but once you get down to fine tuning every single option to your liking the responsiveness and accuracy are unprecedented.

    I really wish LawBreakers could feel that way.

    The game launches today and I doubt the devs changed anything since the open beta since it was more for stress testing the servers, but it would be nice to see at least some acknowledgment on this feedback.