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Ol' Vanguard

EpoxyEpoxy
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edited July 30, 2017 in Beta Gameplay Feedback & Suggestions
Been one-tricking Vanguard this beta and have a couple thoughts. First, love the design of her kit for the most part. Starfall is excellent, pulsar feels much better with lower fuel cost and her gat has good damage at full spool. I like that you can use both Pulsar and Meteor Shells while spinning up the LMB as well. I'm not going to suggest she be able to reload while shifting though and I understand the art limitations of true "omnidirectional movement" given that her afterburner is attached to her right elbow. Even without art limitations I'm not sure it would be wise to buff her air-strafing ability considering her DPS capability. Overall I think she's in a really good spot right now in relation to the other classes.

That said, I have a couple gripes. Mainly, the ~1s delay on Meteor Shells after using Pulsar. I don't want to think about how often during every match I try to E immediately after RMB only to curse and mash E until I actually throw my pocket sand (at which point my target is usually either dead or out of effective range for Meteor Shells). Not sure if it's a quirk of the animation(s) or intentional but it's incredibly frustrating.

The other issue I have is more apparent relative to other classes. Vanguard is very squishy, similar to assassin and wraith, but her movement is much more linear and easy to predict with good aim. Without breaking her balance or art could you simply frontload her acceleration curve on shift? Give her a jolt of momentum immediately that smooths out and finishes accelerating through the fuel bar. No increase to top speed, just a front-loaded curve. Right now she's exceptionally sluggish when starting afterburners, even bulky Titan can build momentum faster with rocket jumping than svelte Vanguard can with her own rocket. She'd still be limited to fairly linear movement in her crosshair direction but she could make some adjustments mid-air and would feel a little less like steering a boat. Additionally, please for the love of all that is holy give her Enforcer's fuel regen mechanic.

Lastly, crosshairs. They're huge and the movement is not great. Yes, I know the movement is there for information to indicate the spool on her gat and I know the blue indicators are for shields, yada yada yada. But not only is white with no outlines awful for visual acuity, the movement is unnecessary. I know how quickly my LMB is spooling up from timing it but even without that, there are sound cues as well, I don't need more **.** moving on my screen thanks.

Oh and one more thing, forget people saying she should be able to reload during flight, can you just please trim down the animation? Reloading currently takes several years and involves throwing her gun all over the place like a bit of a maniac.
Zalamaelserch54

Comments

  • ZalamaelZalamael
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    Epoxy wrote: »
    Oh and one more thing, forget people saying she should be able to reload during flight, can you just please trim down the animation? Reloading currently takes several years and involves throwing her gun all over the place like a bit of a maniac.

    I absolutely, 100% agree with this. The Vanguard is a powerhouse once their weapon is spun up, but they are stupidly easy to kill when they run out of ammo and have to reload.

    It makes sense for the GS to have a long reload time, given how powerful his burst damage is. But the Vanguard doesn't have high burst, they just have high sustained damage, and it takes a while for it to ramp up. Once they run out of ammo, they become very vulnerable, the reload takes far too long, especially considering the spin up time.

  • serch54serch54
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    I agree with a couple of the points. Either a faster Jet curve or a fuel regen for kills.
    As for the delay between pulse and meteors, it is annoying but it kind of makes sense that after using the pulse hand it would need a second to cool or she needs a second to grab the grenades. Does the delay still happen if you go from meteor to pulse? The hand is already out at that point so there's no need for a cool down
  • EpoxyEpoxy
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    serch54 wrote: »
    I agree with a couple of the points. Either a faster Jet curve or a fuel regen for kills.
    As for the delay between pulse and meteors, it is annoying but it kind of makes sense that after using the pulse hand it would need a second to cool or she needs a second to grab the grenades. Does the delay still happen if you go from meteor to pulse? The hand is already out at that point so there's no need for a cool down

    Nope, there's only a delay between RMB >>> E. I can accept the art limitations on her jets and reloading and so on but it would be really **.** annoying if that were also the excuse here too. Sometimes you have to be willing to pare down animations to make the gameplay feel good.
  • iLikeCookiesQiLikeCookiesQ
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    edited July 31, 2017
    Zalamael wrote: »
    Epoxy wrote: »
    Oh and one more thing, forget people saying she should be able to reload during flight, can you just please trim down the animation? Reloading currently takes several years and involves throwing her gun all over the place like a bit of a maniac.

    I absolutely, 100% agree with this. The Vanguard is a powerhouse once their weapon is spun up, but they are stupidly easy to kill when they run out of ammo and have to reload.

    It makes sense for the GS to have a long reload time, given how powerful his burst damage is. But the Vanguard doesn't have high burst, they just have high sustained damage, and it takes a while for it to ramp up. Once they run out of ammo, they become very vulnerable, the reload takes far too long, especially considering the spin up time.

    euhmmm vanguard has both burst and sustained damage. It is just not obvious at first. You can use pulsar and meteor shells without having to let go of the minigun trigger. This whole aspect makes vanguard one of the harder heroes, if not the hardest to play in terms of learning combos. If you are not using pulsar on an enemy that is in range, you are already misplaying. The hero is balanced around the player using all abilities while firing the minigun. That is why her health is so low. She can actually do ridiculous damage if all abilities are used right. I'm not saying vanguard couldn't use a buff, but I don't think its right to say she has no burst.
    Epoxy
  • KangaJooKangaJoo
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    About the crosshairs, last I heard they're aware of the large demand for static, simple and customizable crosshairs but their ui guys are tied up with stuff that needs to get finished before launch. Also, and I didn't notice this until a dev corrected me, there is actually a very very subtle black border on the crosshairs.
  • ZalamaelZalamael
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    KangaJoo wrote: »
    About the crosshairs, last I heard they're aware of the large demand for static, simple and customizable crosshairs but their ui guys are tied up with stuff that needs to get finished before launch. Also, and I didn't notice this until a dev corrected me, there is actually a very very subtle black border on the crosshairs.

    Yeah, it is noticeable, but I found that when switching from a darker background to a lighter one, it took a second for my eyes to adjust to see the Gunslinger's crosshair clearly. I would rather we had the option to make them less subtle, but it isn't a large priority for me, just something I would like to have. I prefer using green and black anyway.
  • EpoxyEpoxy
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    Zalamael wrote: »
    Epoxy wrote: »
    Oh and one more thing, forget people saying she should be able to reload during flight, can you just please trim down the animation? Reloading currently takes several years and involves throwing her gun all over the place like a bit of a maniac.

    I absolutely, 100% agree with this. The Vanguard is a powerhouse once their weapon is spun up, but they are stupidly easy to kill when they run out of ammo and have to reload.

    It makes sense for the GS to have a long reload time, given how powerful his burst damage is. But the Vanguard doesn't have high burst, they just have high sustained damage, and it takes a while for it to ramp up. Once they run out of ammo, they become very vulnerable, the reload takes far too long, especially considering the spin up time.

    euhmmm vanguard has both burst and sustained damage. It is just not obvious at first. You can use pulsar and meteor shells without having to let go of the minigun trigger. This whole aspect makes vanguard one of the harder heroes, if not the hardest to play in terms of learning combos. If you are not using pulsar on an enemy that is in range, you are already misplaying. The hero is balanced around the player using all abilities while firing the minigun. That is why her health is so low. She can actually do ridiculous damage if all abilities are used right. I'm not saying vanguard couldn't use a buff, but I don't think its right to say she has no burst.
    Exactly this. I don't want her buffed really at all tbh, any more and she'd be op. Just some QOL tweaks to give players more freedom to utilize her kit to the fullest.
  • KangaJooKangaJoo
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    God the gs crosshair is awful. Like who decided it would be good to have a tiny white dot crosshair that's like 1 pixel with an animated white circle around it? May as well be playing without a crosshair at that point.
  • EpoxyEpoxy
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    KangaJoo wrote: »
    God the gs crosshair is awful. Like who decided it would be good to have a tiny white dot crosshair that's like 1 pixel with an animated white circle around it? May as well be playing without a crosshair at that point.

    All the crosshairs are terrible. Across the board, they have too much animation, awful contrast, and are poorly scaled.