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I have a lot to say...

CapriSun_GuyCapriSun_Guy
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edited August 4 in PS4 Beta Gameplay Feedback & Suggestions
I have poured quite a bit of time into the open beta on ps4 so far (8 hours) and I am enjoying it a lot so far, However there are several major things that have bugged me since the start of the beta. EDIT: Ended up putting 11 hours into the beta, I still support my opinions.

1. Lack of sensitivity
This is big for a hardcore fps player like me because I feel although the strong point that Lawbreakers has that other competitors such as overwatch don't offer is the freedom you are granted in your movement as a player. I currently have my settings maxed at (FOV: 110)(Verticle/Horizontal Sens: 100) and this doesn't feel like enough to grant my character the freedom I would like it to have. Especially when you're trying to hit wall-jumping wraiths.

2. Late match joining
I am a very competitive player and my stats mean a lot to me and the other people I play with. You're average score should reflect your personal skill and currently I have a few games where I joined in at the very end that are holding my average score back. As a player it feels completely out of your control that those grades affect your record although you don't deserve them. I strongly believe that your score should only effect your grade If you are there the entire match.

3. Navigating stickers
At this point in time the sticker menu of 223 stickers is a mess. Scrolling to the bottom, your game drops down to about 5 fps, there must be an easier way to so this... right? Sections of stickers maybe?

4. Stickers
I love the idea of customizing your weapons with colorful little logos and stuff. The sticker system right now is too little too small, they are hard to see unless you inspect your weapon. I believe the that the player should be able to control the size, location, and amount of stickers to put on their weapon, Currently the feature feels a bit lacking.

5. WRAITH
Last but certainly not least, wraith. Wraith's key feature in my opinion is his mobility, his ability to get around the map fast should be his outlining feature, not his damage. Wraith has a tiny machine pistol compared to the enforcer's assault rifle and 9 times out of 10 a wraith with good aim will out gun the enforcer with no problems. On top of that, his melee does a ton of damage and lunges him forward several feet to guarantee the hit. The cherry on the cake is the explosive knife that he can shoot to make everyone life just a little worse. He should be a mobile opportunist, right now he's a mobile powerhouse. (I hope there are already plans for a gunslinger nerf)

Other than that I can honestly say congrats to those at boss key and nexon for making this wonderful game, This game already earned a spot in my heart. I'm saying these things because I really care about the game and I hope it succeeds.

Edit: Didn't think so many people would see this thread, If you need someone to play with when the game releases on the 8th add me @Caprantsevvv. If not there's an official community created for the game, go join it if you want. Thanks everyone
seraphmage
  1. Does wraith need a damage nerf?13 votes
    1. Yes
       46% (6 votes)
    2. No
       54% (7 votes)

Comments

  • JeefJeef
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    I agree that the wraith may need another round of nerfs. On console at least, he seems to do way too much damage at close and mid-range for the mobility that he has. His gun is also fairly easy to use for the amount of damage he can dish out.

    I'm not sure about whether the gunslinger needs a nerf though. My initial impressions is that he seems to excel at all ranges, on top of which he has great in combat mobility. He dominates the long range, which would make you think that when you're able to close the gap you would have the advantage in the fight but this just isn't the case. I have not played the gunslinger much myself though so perhaps all the people I'm playing against are just very good with him.
  • CapriSun_GuyCapriSun_Guy
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    I have about 2 hours played on gunslinger and I can personally say that he needs a little tuning damage wise, he can beat any character at any range. (unless you're a tank) The main problem with the gunslinger is that as long as you have somewhat good aim, you can kill anything. On console where people are less agile it makes shots extremely easy to hit. Today I went 44K-5D-35A In a blitz ball match. There is no doubt he needs something but I don't know how big. My tip for gunslinger is to just spam both triggers, watch while you just melt everyone you see.
    seraphmage
  • JeefJeef
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    edited July 30
    Though I do think his damage numbers may need tweaking a bit, I'm not sure they would nerf his damage because I know their ethos is to reward good aim. I think they could either nerf his mobility, his health, clip size/reload speed of his gun or his fire rate. Changes to some of these would make it easier to punish him if misses his shots and put a bit more pressure on the gunslinger player to be accurate.
  • CapriSun_GuyCapriSun_Guy
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    edited July 30
    You make some good points, for any other character those nerfs would work but I'll tell you why they wouldn't work on gunslinger.
    Mobility: gunslinger is already on the lower side of mobility, he really needs that blink in order to get in and out of fights. Nerfing his only mobility tool is a bad idea because he only has 3 charges that regen every like 3 seconds on it anyway, it's extremely punishable if you know what you're doing.

    Health: He's already leaning on the lower side with enforcer having 400 health, Gunslinger having 325 and assassin having 300. Personally I think that that's a good spot for him health wise.

    Clip size: I wouldn't mind this actually because when I play gunslinger I usually reload after every kill anyway, nerfing his clip size would make players use his guns more sparingly. I'd say omega down to 5 and alpha, because the alpha is a damage powerhouse if you can't hit your omega shots I was thinking about reducing it but I think it's fine where it is. My problem is that I don't think that that's enough change to make him fair, people will kill you 3 bullets into the omega. However; I feel that 5 bullets is the lowest you should go.

    Reload speed: I think the reload seen now is good, I can't tell you how many times I've died to reloading in the middle of gunfights.
  • Ind1vdualEl3venInd1vdualEl3ven
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    Wraith got a nerf from the last beta if I remember correctly
  • CapriSun_GuyCapriSun_Guy
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    edited July 30
    Yes, they did but they nerfed his mobility. My argument is that he should have the mobility but with less damage.
  • JeefJeef
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    I don't think those nerfs to the wraith were enough from what I've played.

    You've also raised some good points as well Caprisun Guy. A potential nerf to his clip size would make missing shots more costly, but shouldn't hinder those who are able to hit their shots . If that's not quite enough though then maybe a fire rate nerf on top of that would help put him in a better spot.

    The more I play, the more I feel like the gunslinger, wraith and to some extent even the vanguard are carrying the players using them. Still beta though so it's difficult to be definitive.
  • Raxus001Raxus001
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    Yes, they did but they nerfed his mobility. My argument is that he should have the mobility but with less damage.

    Look at the patch notes, they didn't nerf his mobility. They decreased the range of his gun even though to me it doesn't feel like they have that much. I still think his stab secondary fire is still a joke(he can still stab you from too far away).
  • CapriSun_GuyCapriSun_Guy
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    Raxus001 wrote: »
    Yes, they did but they nerfed his mobility. My argument is that he should have the mobility but with less damage.

    Look at the patch notes, they didn't nerf his mobility. They decreased the range of his gun even though to me it doesn't feel like they have that much. I still think his stab secondary fire is still a joke(he can still stab you from too far away).

    No, I'm saying overall they have nerfed his mobility ALOT they put a delay on his slide and the dash on consecutive knife attempts has been reduced greatly, which were the two things that made him so great mobility wise.
  • StrongSideStrongSide
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    Your number 1 complaint is exactly how I feel. The aiming in LawBreakers must be flawless if it wants to be taken seriously competitive-wise.

    Check this thread for some good suggestions on how to improve it.
  • MercBerserkMercBerserk
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    edited August 3
    Here we go, same in any game, nerf high mobility players in a game that is designed to be fast paced ?!?. Was hoping it would be different in this game, everyone want to slow it down to make it easier for them. These types of threads will be the downfall of the game if the devs cater to these types of requests.

    Wraith is already underwhelming after that last set of nerfs, viable but underwhelming. Prior to that nerf and prior to Gunslingers buffs, I was wrecking Wraiths with Gunslinger. Now they buffed GS and nerfed Wraith and we are now starting more threads to nerf the crap out of him again, why, cause that is what people do when a role is quick. This is the same stuff that happens in Overwatch... nerf Genji, nerf Tracer, ha.... even nerf Lucio, right!?!

    Wraith is very very easy to deal with as long as he is not on top of you unless you are Gunslinger than you can deal any role from any range in any situation.

    If I had to guess, most issues people have with high mobility roles is bad position on their part, Wraith is not in need of any more nerfs, players just need to learn to play against different roles with different strengths weaknesses. I don't think either beta offered enough time to learn that and continued nerfs for any role is way too early. Even Gunslinger who I am inclined to say needs some major tweaks to balance him believe it is way to early to dictate what those are.
  • MercBerserkMercBerserk
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    edited August 3
    Raxus001 wrote: »
    Yes, they did but they nerfed his mobility. My argument is that he should have the mobility but with less damage.

    Look at the patch notes, they didn't nerf his mobility. They decreased the range of his gun even though to me it doesn't feel like they have that much. I still think his stab secondary fire is still a joke (he can still stab you from too far away).

    I disagree with you completely, his combos now require substantial damage prior to engaging for them to be successful. If you use them at the wrong time, your basically dead due to his recently nerfed health, slide damage reduction and melee range reduction as well as the reduced specter damage.

    Health reduced from 350 to 325.
    Slide damage reduced from 85 to 25.
    Wasp stab range reduced from 600 → 400.
    Consecutive Wasp stabs will result in lunging impulse decrease. <---- THIS DOES REDUCE MOBILITY WHICH IS NOT NEEDED AND WE WERE SORT OF MISLED IN THEIR PATCH NOTES WHERE THEY SAID HIS MOBILITY WOULDN'T BE NERFED.
    Spektor pistol damage at max range reduced from 13 → 12.


    I am pretty confident that there will be calls for nerfing Wraith until he is completely useless in this game. There will always be a group of people that want the game slowed down and skill cap reduced to accommodate their preferred role or play style. It's one of the reasons I have grown to dislike Overwatch and stopped playing it, their forum is just saturated with nerf threads.
  • XCCuteXCCute
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    edited August 3
    Here we go, anyone that can't aim or track wants to nerf high mobility roles, same in any game. Was hoping it would be different in this game, everyone want to slow it down to make it easier for them. These types of threads will be the downfall of the game if the devs cater to these types of requests.

    Wraith is already underwhelming after that last set of nerfs, viable but underwhelming. Prior to that nerf and prior to Gunslingers buffs, I was wrecking Wraiths with Gunslinger. Now they buffed GS and nerfed Wraith and we are now starting more threads to nerf the crap out of him again, why, cause that is what people do when a role is quick. This is the same stuff that happens in Overwatch... nerf Genji, nerf Tracer, ha.... even nerf Lucio, right!?!

    Wraith is very very easy to deal with as long as he is not on top of you unless you are Gunslinger than you can deal any role from any range in any situation.

    If I had to guess, most issues people have with high mobility roles is bad position on their part, Wraith is not in need of any more nerfs.

    I see where you are coming from. I think nerfing the mobility out of the characters is butchering this game's premise. I say the more mobile they are, the better. However I feel these nerfs are being called out because of two things:
    • People who can't aim at all / lack console FPS experience
    • People who can actually aim but don't realize there are issues with the actual aiming system holding them back

    This leads people to misplace the blame on the characters themselves.

    Like you said the same thing can be observed on Overwatch. Just jump into Blizzard's forums and you see people crying nerfs to Genji, Pharah, Tracer on console along with threads asking for a proper aiming system before any nerfs claiming it will mitigate their current dominance.

    Nerfing the mobility out of the characters is just treating symptoms. Fixing the aiming system properly or at least giving players the options to do so is fixing the root cause. Overwatch devs fail to see this. If LawBreakers devs also fail to see this, the game will fall into a nerf spiral and never be taken seriously on console.

    Bottom line: aiming in an aim intensive, skillful game must be absolutely flawless.
  • JeefJeef
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    To be fair, the OP has not asked for nerfs to the wraith's mobility, but his damage instead.
  • MercBerserkMercBerserk
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    edited August 4
    Jeef wrote: »
    To be fair, the OP has not asked for nerfs to the wraith's mobility, but his damage instead.

    His damage to his gun has been nerfed, his health has been nerfed, his range and damage in CQ where he is suppose to shine has been nerfed, his mobility has already been nerfed and people are still complaining. Why is anyone asking for more nerfs on him at all. Why? Cause he is quick and people automatically attack fast paced roles/classess and not just in this game, it is just what people do. The only reason I can think of is that they don't like the idea that if that player was able to flank them or out maneuver them. This goes to good positioning and map awareness, not nerfing roles cause they utilized the strength of the role and the person complaining didn't.

    What some of you fail to understand is his mobility in normal gravity is crazy good, not so good in 0g though. His mobility also relies on his wasp melee so while he is in the process of moving, he is handicapped somewhat from firing so his movement alone has somewhat of a risk reward especially in 0g. There are places on the map where he absolutely excels and there are places where he is a sitting duck. In 0g at mid to long range, Vanguard and Enforcer should destroy him pretty easily. So should Gunslinger but GS wrecks everyone in just about every situation so that doesn't count.

    What I find interesting is that he compared Enforcer to Wraith, a role that is good all around role, kind of like soldier from OW. He has good long and mid range with his assault rifle, good CQ with his secondary shotgun, he has good mobility and a ridiculous amount of health, way over the top for someone with good mobility. His abilities are much better than Wraith's and his ULT is just stupid broken. If an Enforcer is loosing to Wrath at range, that is the player, not the role whether it be bad positioning or just bad aim. If an Enforcer is loosing to Wraith at CQ, well duh! That is suppose to happen. Mid range, that is up in the air and dependent upon how good each player is with mobility and where they are on the map, in 0 to low gravity, Wraith is at a huge disadvantage and his only saving grace is if he can get to cover or the Enforcer is just a bad shot.

    In no way should anyone be calling for a nerf, especially right after one beta where he was almost nerfed in to the ground. At this point, he is still viable but like Tracer in OW, you change anything on him now, you risk him being useless and at that point, you just slowed the pace of the game sending this game into a potential death spiral. By the way, calling for a nerf on damage vs mobility for a high mobility role doesn't change the fact you are trying to nerf a high mobility role cause they just don't like to get flanked or meleed at CQ.

    People that like to play ranged roles in just about every game I have ever played have this unreasonable belief that not only should they have advantages they have at range but they should be on equal ground in CQ against the roles that are weaker at range. Roles are designed to have different strengths but with the strengths there needs to be weaknesses to keep balance. In some cases the maps might favor one over the other but that is just part of learning the game I guess.
  • CapriSun_GuyCapriSun_Guy
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    edited August 4
    Jeef wrote: »
    To be fair, the OP has not asked for nerfs to the wraith's mobility, but his damage instead.

    His damage to his gun has been nerfed, his health has been nerfed, his range and damage in CQ where he is suppose to shine has been nerfed, his mobility has already been nerfed and people are still complaining. Why is anyone asking for more nerfs on him at all. Why? Cause he is quick and people automatically attack fast paced roles/classess and not just in this game, it is just what people do. The only reason I can think of is that they don't like the idea that if that player was able to flank them or out maneuver them. This goes to good positioning and map awareness, not nerfing roles cause they utilized the strength of the role and the person complaining didn't.

    What some of you fail to understand is his mobility in normal gravity is crazy good, not so good in 0g though. His mobility also relies on his wasp melee so while he is in the process of moving, he is handicapped somewhat from firing so his movement alone has somewhat of a risk reward especially in 0g. There are places on the map where he absolutely excels and there are places where he is a sitting duck. In 0g at mid to long range, Vanguard and Enforcer should destroy him pretty easily. So should Gunslinger but GS wrecks everyone in just about every situation so that doesn't count.

    What I find interesting is that he compared Enforcer to Wraith, a role that is good all around role, kind of like soldier from OW. He has good long and mid range with his assault rifle, good CQ with his secondary shotgun, he has good mobility and a ridiculous amount of health, way over the top for someone with good mobility. His abilities are much better than Wraith's and his ULT is just stupid broken. If an Enforcer is loosing to Wrath at range, that is the player, not the role whether it be bad positioning or just bad aim. If an Enforcer is loosing to Wraith at CQ, well duh! That is suppose to happen. Mid range, that is up in the air and dependent upon how good each player is with mobility and where they are on the map, in 0 to low gravity, Wraith is at a huge disadvantage and his only saving grace is if he can get to cover or the Enforcer is just a bad shot.

    In no way should anyone be calling for a nerf, especially right after one beta where he was almost nerfed in to the ground. At this point, he is still viable but like Tracer in OW, you change anything on him now, you risk him being useless and at that point, you just slowed the pace of the game sending this game into a potential death spiral. By the way, calling for a nerf on damage vs mobility for a high mobility role doesn't change the fact you are trying to nerf a high mobility role cause they just don't like to get flanked or meleed at CQ.

    People that like to play ranged roles in just about every game I have ever played have this unreasonable belief that not only should they have advantages they have at range but they should be on equal ground in CQ against the roles that are weaker at range. Roles are designed to have different strengths but with the strengths there needs to be weaknesses to keep balance. In some cases the maps might favor one over the other but that is just part of learning the game I guess.

    I don't think you understood what I said previously... I actually want the wraith buffed, I just want him buffed mobility wise. The only balance I want is that in exchange for giving him the mobility back I want him to do less damage, currently he can pump out consistent 400's out of that tiny machine pistol of his. If his total dps could be reduced from maybe 400 to 300 that would give players more of an incentive to be more accurate or use his combos. This would INFLUENCE higher skilled wraith play, The sensitivity issue is something that would not just help other players but it would actually help wraith players themselves. I WANT wraith players to flank and get in close that's why I proposed the damage reduction. I've played a fair amount of wraith and it's hard to control his aim because of the lacking sensitivity options. Also NO CHARACTERS should be good at everything that's the whole reason why there are multiple roles in a team shooter. Like soldier from overwatch, he's not good at everything, he's mediocre at everything. He can't heal consistanly like healers, he doesn't output as much damage as more skilled characters like mecree or reaper, and even with his mobility option he's still a big target. The reason Wraith was nerfed he because he was a HUGE problem before you said he was almost "nerfed into the ground" but I highly disagree, The changes made were to increase his skill floor. In the closed betas ANYONE with little practice could use Wraiths full damage and mobility potential. Even in the open beta there was at least 1 or more Wraith on either team every game, does that sound like he was "almost nerfed into the ground ?" Also I only compared Wraith with Enforcer damage wise, Wraith can beat enforcers mid range it happens all the time if you fire in bursts you can outgun an enforcer pretty easy. Also enforcer is pretty balenced, your complaints are all because of the enforcers low skill sealing. In reality any longer-range class (like titan or wraith) can out-gun the enforcer. The game is only in beta so not everyone has that skill yet...His health pool is balanced compared to the tanks and assassins, he's in between and that's how he should be. Also want to know why his mobility is so good? It's because the Enforcer's class mechanics INFLUENCE players to play more skillfully. Landing bullets and getting kills/assists give players an objective mid-fight. I wish that maybe they could implement a passive on the wraith that gives him a special boost of some kind every time he gets a melee kill, like increased movement speed or something. This is just MY opinion, Read other people's threads before forming your own opinion, Thanks. Anyways thanks for choosing to argue on this thread, hopefully devs see this.