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Vertigo is really bad designed

PureSangheiliPureSangheili
LawBreakers Rep: 1,085
Posts: 51
Member
in Map Feedback
(Apologize for my awful English)

Let's talk about Vertigo, i think its the worst map of the game for many reasons.

One of the main reason is the fact that Enforcer, GS and Harrier are way better than any other role in this map. Because the lines of sight are way too big, there isnt so much walls etc. Juggernaut is almost useless on this map for example (even if i think it isnt only because of the map). Ans its a really hard map for Wraith and Sin.
The Hitscan long range classes are completely free to shoot everything they want to shoot.
So i think the map need a lot of rework, more walls etc; but i dont know exactly how to change it so much.

But it isnt the only reason imo.

The place of Battery/Uplink in middle is bad i guess. Because all long ranged character are free to shoot anyone on it. And because the health station is way too close from the battery.

JzFRTON.jpg

I think the battery should be bot-mid and not top mid. So it would be easier for Juggernaut to place a useful wall and a little bit harder for GS etc to shoot at people on battery. And if the battery is bot, it takes more time to go to the health station top, so you cant easily go in/out as you want.

Then, in this map it is way too easy to defend for a lot of reasons.

The first thing is : the spawn is too close and you can shoot at enemy taking battery from your spawn, its a shame imo. You can even see if an enemy is flanking and healing himself in health station behind everybody, making the defense easier and the attack harder.

qUoqXZF.jpg

Is this really normal and balanced ? If someone dies, he reappears really close and can get into the battle really fast.

One of my thought too is the health station is too close from the battery, and not safe at all for someone attacking in the back. Compared to other maps you lose nothing if you take the time to go to health station in defense, you can almost stay close and shoot at enemies at the same time. And when you attack you cant even be relax when you are into the station.
So one of my first suggestion is to move the health station at this place :

oJKcWAH.jpg

And to move the 2 medkits where is the health station actually. The health station would be a little bit further for the defense, and safer for the attack. So it would be easier to flank.

Then maybe add a wall where i drew it here :

HI5NPCe.jpg

Its just to not be able to shoot at people on battery when you are in your spawn. So you have to go out of your spawn and you take a little bit more time to come into the battle.

Then it isnt the biggest problem but i feel like there isn't a lot of flanking way to go "behind" enemies, especially compared to other maps once again. Cause one of the side is completely blocked by the enemy spawn.

eFRuxBV.jpg

With Sin you can grapple here :

u9ZaTbP.jpg

So you land here :

LzDiTmr.jpg

But you are just in front of the enemy spawn and health station so you ve got a lot of risks by doing it. Maybe removed this door to go away of the spawn :

dEknlvO.jpg

Just to be a little bit more safe. But i guess the flanking routes arent the biggest problems, especially if you move the health station where i said it before.

Actually even if the map looks cool, i hate to play on it. And i hope you are going to make a lot of changes on it. :)
Hope you understood my English !

Good bye ! :D
XemoutMAAT432iLikeCookiesQ

Comments

  • ShawnHalogenShawnHalogen
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,320
    Posts: 101
    Member
    Vertigo is my favorite map. You can go under the bridge that connects the two bases and the enemy never looks under there. Hang out in zero-g to replenish any fuel and then surprise them.

    The middle is not the best way to go. You can easily get to the other base just by blind-firing on the sides of the map. Your team should split so you force the enemy to have to look at the left side and right side. But you can't just charge right at the base, you gotta get a little creative and a little unpredictable.
    MAX2Armemepits420
  • DarkwatchmanDarkwatchman
    LawBreakers Rep: 340
    Posts: 10
    Member
    I main wraith and vertigo is my favorite map. Argument invalid about it being a bad map for wraith. It's one of the maps I do best on. Slide and stab along with rear blindfire allows me to cover the entire map in a breeze, giving me the opportunity to heal at one of the health stations before gettin back into the action. Don't blame your skill level and say it's bad map design.
  • jacob_armitagejacob_armitage
    LawBreakers Rep: 2,000
    Posts: 264
    Member
    edited August 17, 2017
    I actually really adore this map, and even a few of the reviews mention it by name as a standout. I think we need more maps not in this layout, but with more of a unique structure like Vertigo. So many are just too similar w/ their layout and design philosophy.
  • PureSangheiliPureSangheili
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,085
    Posts: 51
    Member
    Vertigo is my favorite map. You can go under the bridge that connects the two bases and the enemy never looks under there. Hang out in zero-g to replenish any fuel and then surprise them.

    Yeah but it isnt because enemies are bad and dont look where they are supposed to look it mean map is well designed.
    The middle is not the best way to go. You can easily get to the other base just by blind-firing on the sides of the map. Your team should split so you force the enemy to have to look at the left side and right side. But you can't just charge right at the base, you gotta get a little creative and a little unpredictable.

    I love how people are talking to me like i never played the game or im just bad at it when it isnt the case at all. If you go to the "hided" side you are just going to be in front of the enemy spawn and enemy still can see you from the middle of their base, if you are going to the other side, you are almost mid and they can see you. I am not saying that is bad or what, but i feel like its way easier to cover all side of the map in Vertigo than in other maps.
    I main wraith and vertigo is my favorite map. Argument invalid about it being a bad map for wraith. It's one of the maps I do best on.

    Lol, your argument is way better than mine for sure. "im doing good on it with Wraith and i love this map, so its a good map" ^^
    Slide and stab along with rear blindfire allows me to cover the entire map in a breeze, giving me the opportunity to heal at one of the health stations before gettin back into the action.

    Wow impressive i never did it ! You are so skilled, you slide and stab to be fast ! o.O Man, im doing it too, i travel the map way faster than any other map cause you can literally go straight forward on it. But its isnt because you can travel the map fast as Wraith it means its a good map for Wraith.
    Don't blame your skill level

    I am not.
    and say it's bad map design

    It is. The most simple map of the game, and a lot of things arent good on it. Im doing great on this map too, even with Wraith, but it doesnt mean its a good map for Wraith, its just because players are still really bad actually. And even if it was a good map for Wraith, it doesnt mean at all the map is well designed.
    I talked about a lot of things in my initial post, did you read it ? I wasnt talking only about Wraith or classes in general. I talked about the fact the spawn is too close to the battery, the fact you can shoot at enemies on battery from your spawn. The fact the health station is too close too etc.
    So maybe you arent agree when i said its a bad map for Wraith, and ok why not ? But it doesnt mean its normal to be able to shoot at enemies on battery when you are in your spawn you know ? And this argument as nothing to do with Wraith, Sin or any other class, its just a bad choice of game design.
    I actually really adore this map, and even a few of the reviews mention it by name as a standout. I think we need more maps not in this layout, but with more of a unique structure and layout like Vertigo. So many are just too similar w/ their layout and design philosophy.

    I completely understand your opinion. I agree, its a really unique map. But I really hate the spawn on it, and location of health station. I think we can fix those issues without making the map too generic.
  • DarkwatchmanDarkwatchman
    LawBreakers Rep: 340
    Posts: 10
    Member
    You say it's a bad map for wraith, but it's not because it allows so much room for him to get out of harm's way. Enclosed corridor's and walkways are where he does not do well and where he can get killed easily. A massive open space like vertigo is PERFECT for wraith and assassin.
  • AgoatAgoat
    LawBreakers Rep: 525
    Posts: 8
    Member
    A massive open space like vertigo is PERFECT for wraith and assassin.

    ...what?

    I'm in agreement with the map lacking. I main Wraith but usually end up switching to Gunslinger just because of how open it is. If I can get a foothold in either base as a Wraith, great. But the open spaces don't really help you get in. I'd go as far to say that unless you're controlling mid, going out at all is a risk. In a game about movement, that's rough. Despite all of this, I have no idea how to improve upon the map... So Gunslinger it is.
  • NetOneNetOne
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,065
    Posts: 75
    Member
    I like this map, but good points and good ideas by the OP.
    Asbel
  • Cor1leCor1le
    LawBreakers Rep: 635
    Posts: 20
    Member
    Vertigo is an utterly broken and horribly designed map, that I think is beyond saving. The concept of being able to grapple and jump around underneath the platform is amazing but everything else is just not fit for the game.
  • Armemepits420Armemepits420
    LawBreakers Rep: 700
    Posts: 40
    Member
    How can someone not like Vertigo?
    Being vulnerable to enemy spawnpoints is reasonable drawback to compensate how easily you can backdoor. That easy access is made to hit objective defenders from behind, not to spawncamp.
    And since I'm seeing Wraiths and Assassins on Vertigo pretty often, I wouldn't say is map is unfavorable towards them.
  • iLikeCookiesQiLikeCookiesQ
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,920
    Posts: 210
    Member
    I would like them to try this map on the quickplay rotation with blitzball instead of battery modes. They could also do Occupy with only 3 zones.
  • FlickshotXXLFlickshotXXL
    LawBreakers Rep: 1,655
    Posts: 204
    Member
    I would agree that Vertigo isn't the greatest map for LawBreakers, since it can be easily dominated by long range classes. And the spawn zone are right next to the objective.

    The map Trench is similar. Trench is the second worst map. However, Trench is better thanks to the walls around the objectives that prevents players from the middle or other side of the map to directly have eyes on the objective.